Dust Collection & PVC

[Craig Shewmake]

So I dove in the deep end. I have all my big machines (DC, table saw, jointer, planer, combo sander, bandsaw, drill press) assembled and calibrated. I have, until I change my mind again , figured where I am placing all the tools in my minimal 2 car garage space. Since my space is limited I have everything except the DC on wheels. With the excepting of the TS which is centrally located all the tools will reside against the walls. I will be able to move them out a few feet if I need to handle larger material. So all is good!

I have decided to use PVC and after a ridiculous amount of researching I think (I know, scary concept) that I will run 6" from the DC as a main line across the garage with 4" downspouts to the tools. The entire length of the 6" main line will not exceed 20' and the last 8' or so of that is for future considerations should I decide to relegate the truck to the driveway and just use the whole 3 car garage for the shop.

So with that said, I have decided to go with SDR-35 PVC unless some of you school me on a better and more cost effective approach. This is my plan with the black dots being down spouts. If I need to use the planer or drill press I would just hook them up to the down spout where the truck is. My thinking is I could move stuff around should I need to use for example the table saw, jointer, and planer a lot over a few days span. Most of the time I would just be using one tool at any given time. Is your head spinning? Mine is! lol

So with all this said, and I am sure some of you might think I'm nuts and offer up different and/or better scenarios, I have had some difficulty finding vendors that sell SDR-35 piping and connectors/fittings. Pricing seems to be very inconsistent as well on the sites I have found. Is there a one stop shopping spot that you all have used with reasonable pricing? Any and all input will be welcomed. Thanks for taking the time to read my drivel.

[Andy Giddings]

Am in the same boat - try McMaster Carr, US Plastic and Menards for your pipe and fittings. They all seem to carry a reasonable range with prices below spiral duct for the most part. Also you may want to move this over to the workshop forum

[Chris Schoenthal]

First problem I see is that car parked in your shop.
I did a google search for 6" SDR-35 PVC and Lowes has it here.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Charlotte-P...n-Pipe/3134721
The main reason for running the sewer pipe is to cut down on the weight, you can use regular Sch40 fittings.

[Craig Shewmake]

First problem I see is that car parked in your shop.

I know. I know. But the truck is semi new and I cant find myself to relegate it to the driveway. I am leaning towards it though day by day. I would be sweet to have everything away from the walls and not move them if needed for particular uses. Bit with this only being a hobby type thing I really wont be using more than one tool at a time etc

I also saw the Lowe's offering. I was more thinking along the lines of a one stop shop for pipe, fittings, flex hose, blast gates etc. I imagine I will have to piecemeal it though as a one stop shop for all might be overly expensive.

[Craig Shewmake]

Am in the same boat - try McMaster Carr, US Plastic and Menards for your pipe and fittings. They all seem to carry a reasonable range with prices below spiral duct for the most part. Also you may want to move this over to the workshop forum

I will do that. To be honest, I haven't even glanced at the other forums. Thanks for pointing that out and the references.

[Van Huskey]

When this thread goes MIA just look for it in the workshops forum, it will be there sooner or later.

On PVC, someone will comment on the current low price leader for fittings, I haven't researched it for a while but it is almost always cheaper to buy the actual pipe locally. Big box stores will have it, plumbing or industrial supplies as well but I have had my best luck with landscape supply houses.

I see one issue with your plan that will have a significant impact on the efficacy or your cyclone. You want 5-6 ft of straight pipe from the cyclone inlet to the first junction or turn. This is often difficult to accomplish in hobby shops but you want to do the best you can and certainly you don't want a junction and a turn right there at the inlet as you have it drawn.

[Craig Shewmake]

When this thread goes MIA just look for it in the workshops forum, it will be there sooner or later.

On PVC, someone will comment on the current low price leader for fittings, I haven't researched it for a while but it is almost always cheaper to buy the actual pipe locally. Big box stores will have it, plumbing or industrial supplies as well but I have had my best luck with landscape supply houses.

I see one issue with your plan that will have a significant impact on the efficacy or your cyclone. You want 5-6 ft of straight pipe from the cyclone inlet to the first junction or turn. This is often difficult to accomplish in hobby shops but you want to do the best you can and certainly you don't want a junction and a turn right there at the inlet as you have it drawn.

I actually moved it there already! The image is a little deceptive. That little section that comes out of the DC would actually be 4 to 5 feet to get it to the ceiling. Of course that is not coming straight out of the DC. In other words I was thinking a gradual angle using a wye or two 45's. I was unaware of the 5-6 ft straight out concept. I have seen so many pics of setups and very few of that come straight out at the same level as the DC outlet. I totally understand why it would be desirable.

Edit: The pic is not totally to scale. I measured just now and I could actually go straight out 4 ft max and then a swooping curve to get it to the ceiling. Not liking the idea of having the 6" tube 1-1/2' from the wall hanging there though. Hmmmmmm

[Craig Shewmake]

Please refer to the post in the Workshop forum. If any mod is viewing this could you please merge them?

[Don Parker]

A few suggestions:

1. Go buy the pipe from a wholesaler in your area. There is always a place that professionals go. Go there. Far cheaper.

2. I'm not crazy about that hard left turn right before the dust collector. Can you move the dust collector down along that wall to give the main trunk a straight shot into the dust collector? That will make a bigger performance difference than you think.

3. I favor 6" pipe and hose all the way to the machine.

Good luck!

[Craig Shewmake]

A few suggestions:

1. Go buy the pipe from a wholesaler in your area. There is always a place that professionals go. Go there. Far cheaper.

2. I'm not crazy about that hard left turn right before the dust collector. Can you move the dust collector down along that wall to give the main trunk a straight shot into the dust collector? That will make a bigger performance difference than you think.

3. I favor 6" pipe and hose all the way to the machine.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I posted this in the other forum by mistake and the turn before the DC was brought up there too. The pic is a tad deceptive and not totally to scale. That short pipe before the turn was actually 4' to 5' of pipe angled to get the pipe to the ceiling. After remeasuring because you guys make total sense with the "straight out" suggestions I can go straight out around 4' then gradually angle it to the ceiling with a wye or gradual turn. The only drawback is the 4' of space that it takes up about 1-1/2' from the wall eliminating valuable wall space.

I thought setting up all the machines and dialing them in would be the biggest chore. This dust collection process is far more time consuming fro a planning and implementing perspective.

[John K Jordan]

A few suggestions:
1. Go buy the pipe from a wholesaler in your area. There is always a place that professionals go. Go there. Far cheaper.
2. I'm not crazy about that hard left turn right before the dust collector. Can you move the dust collector down along that wall to give the main trunk a straight shot into the dust collector? That will make a bigger performance difference than you think.
3. I favor 6" pipe and hose all the way to the machine.

I agree with Don. Run the 6" all the way to the machines then split or reduce if needed. I ran 6" S&D from my 5hp cyclone. At the bandsaw, for example, I split it into three 4" ducts for the upper, lower, and table collection. I have five drops with the longest run probably 45 ft from DC to the machine.

I don't know what DC you are using but for mine they recommend a 4-5' straight section leading directly into the cyclone. When I needed a 90-deg change in direction I substituted two 45-deg fittings for a much gentler turn. In some places I even used several 22.5-deg fittings. My installation was quite an engineering challenge since I snaked everything through the trusses above the ceiling.

DC_AA060_IMG_20141228_19491.jpg DC_IMG_20141228_194934_819.jpg

I bought all my pipe from a local large plumbing supply wholesaler. I bought all the fittings through the local Ace Hardware for less than the plumbing supply prices. (I had to ask for them and order some but they always came the next day.)

JKJ

[Craig Shewmake]

I agree with Don. Run the 6" all the way to the machines then split or reduce if needed. I ran 6" S&D from my 5hp cyclone. At the bandsaw, for example, I split it into three 4" ducts for the upper, lower, and table collection. I have five drops with the longest run probably 45 ft from DC to the machine.

I don't know what DC you are using but for mine they recommend a 4-5' straight section leading directly into the cyclone. When I needed a 90-deg change in direction I substituted two 45-deg fittings for a much gentler turn. In some places I even used several 22.5-deg fittings. My installation was quite an engineering challenge since I snaked everything through the trusses above the ceiling.

DC_AA060_IMG_20141228_19491.jpg DC_IMG_20141228_194934_819.jpg

I bought all my pipe from a local large plumbing supply wholesaler. I bought all the fittings through the local Ace Hardware for less than the plumbing supply prices. (I had to ask for them and order some but they always came the next day.)

JKJ

Thanks for the detailed reply. That's some great work there on your system.

I have the Grizzly G0443 1-1/2 HP Cyclone rated at 1025 CFM @ 2.6"SP.

I originally started out thinking I would mod my Rigid Vac with a cyclone and that would suffice since I will only be using one tool at a time. Then I figured let's do this at least semi properly and picked up the G0443. It's friggen huge and I have been thinking it's complete overkill since no machine will be further that 15' away. I see similar setups on sites and their runs are all over the place with much larger spans and I'm thinking I simply cannot screw this up no matter how hard I try.

I absolutely understand the logic of the 4' to 5' straight pipe coming out of the DC and I can do that. What baffles me though, and yes I read articles talking about going 6" all the way to the machines (Pentz?), is the larger machines (TS, Jointer, Planer, Bandsaw) have 4" ports and the others have 2-1/2 ports. Let's take the TS as an example. From the port to the blade is 3' to 4' of 4" flex hose. My thinking was that adding an additional 3' to 4' of flex going to the 3' to 4' of 4" PVC used for the drop wouldn't really effect the effectiveness all that much. Especially since it's only about 10' from what I thought was a complete overkill of a dust collector for my little shop.

Am I missing something? The line is already downsized to 4" from the port to the blade. Does extending that another 5' to 10' really make a significant difference? Going 4" PVC splitting from the 6" main PVC line would give me a lot more room and flexibility as my drop to the bandsaw, sander, and floor sweep will go between garage doors and a 6" drop wont fit there. So for uniformity and space sake that was my plan right or wrong.

One of these days I'll actually start making some sawdust. Arrrrrrrrggghhhh! lol

[Don Parker]

I should have been more precise in my recommendation of using 6" all the way. I mean using 6" even to connect with the machine where possible, and only reducing to 4" when you have no choice, and in those instances, using more than one collection point for the machine.

You should not read anything into the size of dust collection ports other than this fact: the manufacturers of your tools assume that you only have either a shop vac or, at best, a 4" hose for collecting chips. So, they put in ports of those sizes. That has nothing to do with any assessment by the manufacturers that ports of that size are effective at capturing dust.

Where possible, make the port on the tool bigger, from 4" to 6". Where that is not possible, add another 4" port somewhere and run both of those open when using that machine. Look very hard at shop vac sized ports. They are great on handheld tools like random orbital sanders, but pretty useless on something like a bandsaw.

I can't remember chapter and verse, but if you go back to the Bill Pentz website you mentioned, there is information about how much efficiency you lose with longer runs of 4" pipe, as opposed to 6". But really, my concern is the fact that you assume the tool manufacturers made good dust collection part of their design. Nope. They designed the ports for what size dust collection system they assume you have, not for what would actually work.

I agree, it is challenging and frustrating. You just have to make the best decisions you can with the resources you have. Good luck.

[John K Jordan]

I would certainly enlarge the port on the tablesaw and jointer to 6" and elsewhere where practical. By using a length of 4" the airflow in the entire run will be affected. You can cut a 6" hole in a tablesaw cabinet and mount a flange for the duct.

At my bandsaw I split the 6" into three 4" connections all open at the same time to keep the air moving. If it is restricted, what dust that is picked up may accumulate in a horizontal run. Without enough airflow dust and chips may never even make it up the vertical sections. At the lathe it is impractical to get the chips but I do capture most of the sanding dust with a small positionable hood on a short 4" flex line. So this line won't restrict the airflow in the long run to the other end of the shop I partially open another blast gate at the end of the run. I found the 22-44 drum sander works fine with a 4" duct due to the close-fitting hood. That sander and another are the closest to the DC with very short horizontal runs overhead.

I don't even try to collect the chips from my planer - I just carry it outside and sweep up later. Same with an oscillating drum/belt sander - I carry it out to a porch and make dust there. But I don't use either of these much since most of my shop time is with the lathe.

I didn't see what kind of DC you are using. I don't know much about any but the cyclones. The recommendation for a straight pipe inlet to the DC is to make the separation in a cyclone more efficient but I don't know if it will do anything useful with another type. If you've read Pentz you probably know the advantages of a big cyclone. If a wimpy DC can't produce sufficient airflow not even 6" ducts right into the machines will help.

Another thing to address is the DC noise. My 5hp ClearVue sounds like standing next to a freight train. I built a closet with sound insulation for the cyclone and air compressor. I use good filters and return the air to the shop but as Pentz says, the best thing would be to exhaust outside if possible.

JKJ

[Ole Anderson]

Please refer to the post in the Workshop forum. If any mod is viewing this could you please merge them?

You can always go back and delete your own duplicate post (#7).