Advice on CNC Router

[Peter Froh]

I'm thinking of investing in a hobby CNC router. I was looking at the large X-Carve and Shapeoko 3 XXL. I would prefer to find something more local and I came across 3D Tech Works out of Calgary. I'm considering purchasing their Model 750 (http://3dtechworks.ca/product%203.htm). It seems to be a much more robust model than the X-Carve/Shapeoko.

As I'm new to CNC routers, any thoughts on the attributes of the model 750? I'm concerned about the limited z travel of the X-Carve/Shapeoko.

Thanks in advance!

[William Adams]

In practice, the limited Z-axis height on a CNC router isn't an issue --- how often does one need to work on >1.5" stock --- and for the Shapeoko (and most other designs) there are ways to get additional height when needed.

(ob. discl. part-time Carbide 3D support staff and long-time volunteer)

We've sold a fair number of machines up to Canada, and we fit as much support as we can through e-mail, our web site, FaceTime and Skype, and of course, package deliveries.

Can't speak to the Openbuilds/C-beam machines --- find their web site irritating since they tend to hide stuff on it in various ways (e.g., zipping up dxf2gcode and describing it as a tool able to do some unusual thing, but not mentioning its name).

[Peter Froh]

Thanks William. I do like the communities at both X-Carve and Shapeoko. They seem very helpful and the forums are a great resource. I've seen you post there once or twice

I don't think the model 750 I'm looking at is the openbuilds concept as they advertise some openbuilds OX units as well as the 750.

I'm more concerned about clearing clamps, chainging tooling, etc. In 2" thick material that becomes an issue on carve/shapeoko, no? I may decide to do some carving on thicker stock but realistically I'll be doing most of my work on flat boards.

[William Adams]

When clamping becomes an issue for clearance, I usually just use the center of the stock and ensure that the machine doesn't leave the material bounds during the cutting (sometimes requires a panicked estop if I forget to edit the move to back right corner after completion which some CAM programs put in).

[Keith Outten]

I often use material that is more than 1.5" thick so my view is different than William's.
IMO the smallest router motor that you should consider is 3.25 hp, anything less would not be acceptable for the normal range of CNC projects.

There are lots of threads here on this topic, do some research and take advantage if the mistakes others have made so you won't be upgrading in a few months.

[Peter Froh]

Thanks Keith. I have to be mindful of my budget. I can't justify the $8000 price tag for a more robust system. It would be different if I was looking for something more production quality. I'll do some more research though, that's for sure. The Canadian dollar is pretty weak compared to US dollars so that further dilutes my cash.

[Keith Hankins]

I think before you get the right answer budget will be key. If you are learning do you mean software computers and cnc concepts. If so it will be a long curve. IT is my business and I thought it would be easy transition and it was bigger than I thought. I'm a year in and getting better at it all the time.

A kit if you are handy is another good option. I chose cncrouterparts because support and it was a build it and electronics was plug-n-play and to me that was critical. They are a company that stands by their product and I've spent many an hour on the phone with newbie questions and they are very understanding.

Also key is what kind of material you plan on cutting. That determins a lot too. I wanted to focus more on wood but with the capability to do metal too.

As to what type of router/spindle, that depends on what size and complexity of your parts.

The biggest shock for me was the amount of time some cuts take if they are large or involved. I did a relief carving for an urn for my brother with writing and 3d flags and such and total cut time was 6rs. A router will not stand up to that. Spring for a spindle.

Finally accuracy will vary by type as well. Some things it does not matter much but others it would.

I know I shot a lot at you, but I researched a long long time before buying the kit. If you are comfortable with the software side and cad/cam and those sides, then its a natural. Once you get the concepts and basics learning will speed dramatically.

go look at cncrouterparts they have a small system and they can supply from basic 80/20 rails to plates and drives up to ready to go.

Good luck.

[Peter Froh]

I think before you get the right answer budget will be key. If you are learning do you mean software computers and cnc concepts. If so it will be a long curve. IT is my business and I thought it would be easy transition and it was bigger than I thought. I'm a year in and getting better at it all the time.

A kit if you are handy is another good option. I chose cncrouterparts because support and it was a build it and electronics was plug-n-play and to me that was critical. They are a company that stands by their product and I've spent many an hour on the phone with newbie questions and they are very understanding.

Also key is what kind of material you plan on cutting. That determins a lot too. I wanted to focus more on wood but with the capability to do metal too.

As to what type of router/spindle, that depends on what size and complexity of your parts.

The biggest shock for me was the amount of time some cuts take if they are large or involved. I did a relief carving for an urn for my brother with writing and 3d flags and such and total cut time was 6rs. A router will not stand up to that. Spring for a spindle.

Finally accuracy will vary by type as well. Some things it does not matter much but others it would.

I know I shot a lot at you, but I researched a long long time before buying the kit. If you are comfortable with the software side and cad/cam and those sides, then its a natural. Once you get the concepts and basics learning will speed dramatically.

go look at cncrouterparts they have a small system and they can supply from basic 80/20 rails to plates and drives up to ready to go.

Good luck.

Thanks for taking the time Keith. It's all new to me so I expect a learning curve. I have some background in design software, just not CAD/CAM, but I expect it will take some time to learn this stuff.

I'd like to get a spindle but some of that will depend on the system I purchase. I'll keep that under advisement.

I've been doing some reading and lots of searching online. I have time as I have to liquidate a few tools to raise the funds for this CNC. I plan on using some of that time to learn the software and do the virtual runs to get a better sense of how things work.

[Patrick Lesher]

Thanks for taking the time Keith. It's all new to me so I expect a learning curve. I have some background in design software, just not CAD/CAM, but I expect it will take some time to learn this stuff.

I'd like to get a spindle but some of that will depend on the system I purchase. I'll keep that under advisement.

I've been doing some reading and lots of searching online. I have time as I have to liquidate a few tools to raise the funds for this CNC. I plan on using some of that time to learn the software and do the virtual runs to get a better sense of how things work.

Peter, I was in your same situation. I ended up finding a used older model X-Carve 1000mm with the Dewalt 611 on CL and have loved it. I've done a number of upgrades which gave me an opportunity to pull parts of the machine apart and see how it is put together. Easel ( free ) is a great place to start and do basic things. Fusion 360 is free for a hobbiest and is extremely powerful but has a pretty steep learning curve. A lot of people really like Vcarve but I haven't purchased it yet. There is no Mac version which bugs me and their trial is limited to their demo files.

The thing I like about the X-carve is that it is fairly cheap but can easily be upgraded as my skills and needs grow ( stiffer pieces, spindle, upgraded controller, etc ).

[Art Mann]

I agree (mostly) with Keith. I have a Camaster Stinger that cuts with a 2.25 horsepower Porter Cable router. It does the job but I have to take shallow cuts and cut slower to keep from bogging down. It may be just fine for hobby purposes but I have moved past that and I really wish for a spindle or at least a big router. One comment I will make regarding hobby routers is that there is only so much benefit to upgrading the spindle. If you don't have a heavy rigid frame and drive motors and mechanics that will drive hard and not flex or skip steps, a spindle will do you no good. As an example, my CNC router only has a 2 X 3 cutting area, but it weighs 450 pounds. I don't consider it 1 ounce too heavy for the purpose. It would be worthwhile to upgrade the spindle but I am planning to upgrade machines.

[Bruce Page]

There are other advantages to having a spindle, namely noise and durability. Noise was the main motivation for me to spring for a spindle upgrade. I couldn't bare listening to a router run for 5-6 hours, and my neighbors would string me up.