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Thread: Best rip saws?

  1. #1

    Best rip saws?

    Hi in the future (when my wife lets me out of the dog house for buying a veritas plane set) I would like to acquire a rip saw to rip boards to size. I own no power tools so I'd like to find a capable and ultimately good bang for the buck rip saw.

    Suggestions or can I get away with my cross cut saw for ripping?

  2. #2
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    A rip saw can do cross cutting better than a cross cut saw can rip.

    My first suggestion would be to find something used if possible. Buying new might get you back in the dog house.

    Here is a good starting place for more information about saws:

    http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/f...y/library.html

    There are also some for sale which may be at a low enough price to keep you out of the dog house.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
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    There are decent older vintage "carpenter" style rip saws around from vintage tool re sellers and the auction site on the net. A 26" long one, with 4-1/2 to 5-1/2 ppi filed for rip cutting will serve you very well. I have numerous power tools, both for "woodworking" and "carpentry" use and still grab a hand saw for many cuts due to the quick ease of being able to just grab the saw and make the cut with minimal setup required. You can buy then already sharpened and the saw should last you forever, with an occasional re sharpening dependent upon use. Jim said it - definitely use a rip saw for ripping as opposed to using a crosscut saw.
    David

  4. #4
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    Might I suggest that you download "Sharpen your handsaw" by Ron Herman.

    Then buy any Disston rip saw you can find. You will be able to not only use the rip saw to it's fullest, you will discover old Disston saws and they value the provide. I have 7 handsaws and they are all Disston saws. Five of the saws are sharpened rip. One is a 10 point saw sharpened rip in accordance with Tage Frid and Paul Sellers. Paul only had rip filed saws at Homestead Heritage when I was there.

    I also have 7 point and 8 point cross cut saws. Another one is a nice Disston D20. It is a 1920's vintage and came from my wife's family.

    You will need a saw set and saw files. Lee Valley can fix you up with those. Also, it will be an adventure for you.

    Jim is correct in saying you can crosscut with a rip saw.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 04-06-2017 at 4:22 PM.

  5. #5
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    Right now, I have two very good rip saws.
    A Disston "Keystone" Challenger #6-1/2, 26" long 5-1/2ppi, and
    A Disston pre1928 No. 7 rip saw, 26" long, 6ppi

    Just finished sharpening the No.7 a little while ago....and cut a finger while doing a test run....

    .No. 7.JPG
    The "Guilty Party" and
    OW!.JPG
    The OUCH! One stroke served as a Saw-Stop.....had the finger too close to the top of the test strip, to help it start the cut.....about five strokes later

    crime scene.JPG
    Or just about even with the top of that glue bottle.....one handed ripping after that....saw drifted to the left. Had a line of burrs from the sharpening on that side of the saw, anyway.

  6. #6
    You can't go wrong with this advice. The main thing is to make sure the saw is straight until/unless you are comfortable trying to straighten (not always that hard). A straight saw with a lot of meat left on the plate is all you need. Even on the bay, you shouldn't have to spend more than $15 for a good user.
    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    Might I suggest that you download "Sharpen your handsaw" by Ron Herman.

    Then buy any Disston rip saw you can find. You will be able to not only use the rip saw to it's fullest, you will discover old Disston saws and they value the provide. I have 7 handsaws and they are all Disston saws. Five of the saws are sharpened rip. One is a 10 point saw sharpened rip in accordance with Tage Frid and Paul Sellers. Paul only had rip filed saws at Homestead Heritage when I was there.

    I also have 7 point and 8 point cross cut saws. Another one is a nice Disston D20. It is a 1920's vintage and came from my wife's family.

    You will need a saw set and saw files. Lee Valley can fix you up with those. Also, it will be an adventure for you.

    Jim is correct in saying you can crosscut with a rip saw.

  7. #7
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    Scott,

    Lots of good advise above. The link to what Pete Taran has written is good stuff, and Pete has forgotten more about hand saws that I will ever know.

    When I look for a hand saw, and I don't need to look since I already have way more than I will ever need, I reject any saw that has any of the following: 1. the saw blade has a kink, 2. the saw is significantly pitted, especially near the teeth, 3. the handle is cracked or the horns are broken off other than relatively small chips missing, 4. the blade is rusted other than relatively light surface rust, 5. the blade is bowed, 6. the depth of the blade from top to bottom at the toe is less than a couple of inches and I would rather have a depth of 2.5" or so if possible but 2" can be sharpened a bunch of times before the width of the saw is such that it is too thin, 7. the handle shows it is a later manufacture with the area you grip having rather square edges rather than the gently rounded cross section of the older saws that are easy on the hands when you use it, 8. a plastic, metal, or plywood handle, 9. an "off brand" name on the saw, 10. signs that the saw was made with indifferent craftsmanship.

    There are so many hand saws out there that you should not be in a rush to buy one, wait until you find a good one that can be easily restored with minimal effort.

    All of the above are reasons not to buy a particular saw, and a couple of them should be given less weight than the rest. Those two, from my perspective are: 1. Some saws were made by reputable companies but intentionally made to be lighter, and thus even when new the toe of the saw was made less that 2" wide. I like a relatively wide saw, and those weigh more than the lighter weight saws, but that is a matter of preference, and the lighter narrower saws definitely have a significant following, so that is really a matter of preference. 2. There are saws out there that were made by reputable makers for hardware stores etc., that have the logo of a hardware store, etc., on them instead of the actually manufacturer, and these can be very good saws. Also, there were other good brands, but I like Disston saws because I know the Disston grades and there are so many of them out there that I am comfortable that I know what I am getting.

    I like Disston D8s, partly because there are so many of them out there that they should not be pricy. I would love to have a few of the better grades, but if the seller knows what he has they usually are a LOT more pricy. That said, the D8s are still very good quality saws, IMHO, they were bought by the professional carpenter, cabinet maker, maintenance man, or even good home craftsman. The are a very good saw, and especially a very good saw for the money when the price is right, and for D8s, the price should always be reasonable.

    At a garage sale or estate sale you should be able to buy one for something like $5 or less if it needs a bit of sprucing up. At a flea market, etc. you should not give more than $10 for one (and I would offer $5 or so first), again for one that will need a little sprucing up. (These prices are my opinion only, and are for in this area.) If you buy one that someone has already restored the saw expect to pay more, a lot more. If I had restored one I would ask at least $35 for it, and if it looked really nice I would want $50. (I have restored enough of these that I know how many hours are in the process, and I normally do all of the work by hand, so there can be quite a few hours in a nicely restored saw.)

    At an estate sale last summer the guy was retired carpenter, and had a jillion saws, he had on the order of maybe 200 saws. I bought a couple for maybe $4 each in the morning, but came back toward the end of the day and got maybe 7 more for $1 each (I bought 9 total that day.) These saws were all sharpened by someone who absolutely knew what he was doing, had good handles, and although were dark color due to being treated with what I think was motor oil many years ago, had very minimal pitting. I knew they would clean up nicely with minimal effort. In short, the $1 saws were sharp excellent users "as is", once the oil was cleaned off, so you never know what you will find.

    A son in law needed a rip saw, so we picked out one of them that I thought would make a great user, and then the two of us worked most of the day restoring it, but we refinished the handle, cleaned the blade extremely well and then lightly sanded it with very fine sand paper followed by scotch bright, extremely fine sand paper, finally metal polish followed by paste wax. We also cleaned and metal polished the saw nuts, etc., but then again, we were trying to make the saw look extremely nice, not just be a good user. It was already a good user after we cleaned the old oil off of the blade.

    With regard to the rip saw itself, opinions vary, but generally speaking, the thicker the lumber is that you intend to use the saw on, the fewer teeth per inch you want. Some guys that re-saw by hand use saws with as few as 2 or 3 teeth per inch. Saws with 4&1/2 to 5 TPI are common. I have a 4&1/2 and a 7 TPI, the 7 for finish ripping. A lot of excellent woodworker like the 4&1/2 or 5, although these a bit harder to start than one with finer teeth. A 6 would be a good compromise for me for rough and finish ripping if I was only going to have one. The 6 would be a little slower than the coarser teeth, but still could do fairly nicely for finish work I think. I normally rip primarily 3/4" stock and find that the 7 is my favorite. I don't work with hardwoods a lot, but when I have, I found that the 7 point worked just fine.

    Learn to sharpen the saw yourself if you don't find a good saw sharpener in your area. I guarantee you can do it a lot cheaper than you can pay to have it done, and finding a good saw sharpening service can be a problem. Still, a good sharpening job will keep you in good shape for quite a while. I was very much surprised how well I did the first time I sharpened one of my own saws. Prefect...no, but still pretty darned good, and a WHOLE lot better than it had been. It was every bit as good as some of the commercial guys had done on my saws over the years, but not quite as good as the best. (There are plenty of articles on sharpening on the net.)

    When you use the saw set, don't over do it. Almost every saw I have had commercially sharpened over the years has come back to me with entirely too much set....no need for it, but many commercial sharpening service guys want to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that the saw will not bind up due to inadequate set so they over do the set. Start out with a low setting on the saw set, set the teeth, then do some test cutting. Only increase the set if you need to.

    Finally, you will find a lot more cross cut saws than rip saws, and will likely find a lot of Disston D8s that are 8 point saws, this is because carpenters bought tons of them. You will also likely find some other cross cut teeth patterns, such as 6s and 10s or 12s (the 10s and 12s are finish crosscut saws.) It is a simple matter to file a cross cut 6 point into a 6 point rip saw, and much cheaper than having a saw completely re-toothed. The set will be likely a bit much at first, but after the 2nd or 3rd sharpening it will be just fine. This is a quick way to get a rip saw, as sometimes rip saws can be few and far between it seems like.

    Regards,

    Stew
    Last edited by Stew Denton; 04-07-2017 at 12:13 AM.

  8. #8
    All the great advice given so far is a bit time-consuming: look for a saw on-line or in the flea markets, etc., then research how to restore and sharpen, buy saw files and build a saw sharpening vise, practice on an old junk saw so you don't ruin your new-found beauty with your first try at sharpening, and then sharpen a second time to correct the mishaps of your first try. Then you can use it in your shop.

    All this is well worth doing. You should certainly do it, and do it carefully and do it right and end up with an outstanding saw. In the meantime, you'll miss out on a chunk of woodworking while working at being a saw doctor's apprentice. Hmmmmm!

    On the side, a rip saw that will get you into real woodworking and not get you into very much trouble with SWMBO would be an inexpensive BORG hardpoint saw. They aren't very elegant and aren't what you'll want for the long run and some folks will turn up their noses at their use. OTOH, they will cut, better than a lot of folks expect and they will make you a woodworker and not just a budding saw doctor. Leave the line when you saw and use one of those new planes to smooth the cut and split the line; you can get on with it.

    I've got a hard point saw I keep in my truck so I can break down long stock to fit in the bed at the lumber yard. I buy mostly 8/4 rough stock in 16-20 foot lengths that really don't fit well in a pickup bed. The little hard point saw cross-cuts reasonably well. I don't often use it for rip cuts, but I have done a few and it works better for a rip cut than it does for the cross cuts I normally ask of it.

    Examples:
    https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-Marat...er-Saw/1069859
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-15...544L/202985585

    As a short term fix for your rip cut needs, it may be worth thinking about. And if the price is too much for your wife, maybe you need help we can't provide here!
    Fair winds and following seas,
    Jim Waldron

  9. #9
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    A comfortable handle/tote, a quality spring steel plate without pitting on or near the tooth line, and a straight plate. The rest is all about how well it's filed to make it work properly. I'm particularly fond of accumulating Disston saws (I may or may not have a problem with that, depending on who you ask), but there were many fantastic makers. I would worry more about condition and sharpness than maker, at least in the beginning. I have 3 saws from "Superior" that had awful handles, but the plates were great. Probably made by Disston anyway. I just made new totes for them, and they cut as good as any.
    Jeff

  10. #10
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    An old Disston D8 with a thumbhole handle is a nice rip saw, and should be reasonably priced even in good condition. So long as the blade isn't kinked a rip saw is not too difficult to get into working order.

    If you want a new saw that you can use right away, and won't break the bank, it's tough to beat a large replaceable-blade ryoba. I have a 300mm from Gyokucho, which is about $50 if I remember correctly, and it cuts extremely well while leaving a good finish. The nice thing about the ryoba style is you also get a very fast crosscut saw as well. It works best with a two handed grip and with the work piece held upright in the vise, or with the work piece on low sawhorses and you standing on top of it. Western ripsaws like the D8 work best on a medium height sawbench where you can kneel on the workpeice.

  11. #11
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    This handsaw business leads to spending as much shop time piddling with saws as making things out of wood. BEWARE!

  12. #12
    In all seriousness to those balking at saw addiction, filing, or restoring, getting a good rip saw going from a flea market or auction is very little effort. Nobody says you have to "restore" anything. Filing rip even your first time is pretty trivial if you have a decent knack for skills of the hand. A saw vise can just be sandwiching the saw between a small plank and your bench. Just buy one that is straight, already filed in a rip pattern and has no missing teeth, and you will likely be sharp and happy in under an hour with a new skill in the works.

  13. #13
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    What Noah says. Pinch the top of the saw between vise chops or a chop and the bench side, leaving the teeth only exposed and then push (1-2-3 ? strokes only) the correct-sized file across the vee intersection of two teeth at a 90* angle to the saw plate and level with the line of the saw. It will be sharper than it was before you started. Move the saw laterally in the vise as needed so that you are only filing on vise-captured saw teeth. Later on, if so desired, you can get into jointing and kerf setting for saws in worse condition.
    David

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