Contributor
What is amusing is just how far some will stretch their sense of ethics, for money.
Trying on a new pair of mail order running shoes is one thing. Taking them for an hour's workout is another; you can't "clean them up" to brand new condition again. Same with "an hour or two" on a plane.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Contributor
This is an interesting discussion. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but let me ask you a theoretical question: If the vendor was completely cool with the return of the plane with the "hour or two" of use, and the buyer was comfortable returning it also, then is the ethical standard of third person (who finds this unacceptable) relevant?Originally Posted by andy bessette
Member
I think I'd want my customers to not feel hesitant to buy my product. On average I bet they sell more tools this way. The cost of returns must be worth it.
Member
I have no idea why any business would not want to have normal distance selling rules. Don't get me wrong, people who buy products to fulfil a task and then return it for a refund are pretty scummy. However a retailer who would not offer a no quibble return policy would not be in business for long. The whole distance selling model would pretty much fail as there would be no faith in it!
Not sure what the US rules are but the UK rules are
"Online, mail and phone order sales
Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods aren’t faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.
You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.
You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They don’t have to provide a reason.
Spot on Andy! Think of the advantages of distance sales to a retailer, less bricks an mortar, less staff, less inventory and plenty more besides. Having a few returns here or there is would be much easier to manage. If people make purchases and choose to keep an item, be it well suited to them or not, based on expectations through sales literature and reviews then good luck to them. If they feel that's ethical then I am very much amused. If I make a purchase and it does not live up to my expectations I want to return it. Thankfully the system as is stands now protects retailer and consumer and it's pretty easy to understand.
Contributor
If a vendor says it's OK to demo his product for a couple hours before returning it, that settles it.
A couple hours use of a shooting plane could represent several entire projects.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Contributor
Me thinks the vendor is implying contiguous hours and not a few minutes this month followed by a few minutes each over the next few months.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Would any "pro return" accept one of the returned planes as new if they ordered a new plane from the vendor.
If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.
Member
Yes. But let's be frank, this is a tiny, tiny segment of the purchasing process. Must be at least 90% of people that just keep and use it. If there was an issue with it after return, it would likely become a demonstrator or sold at a slightly reduced cost. This thread implies that suppliers are at risk from consumers who just use distance selling as a free hire shop. Frankly the system works, if in doubt call the supplier! I bet they'd encourage you to try it, knowing full well they'd be broadly 90% sure of making a sale!
Contributor
I bought the LN 4 1/2. After using it a few times I could never warm up to it. Sold it here for not much less than purchase price.
Contributor
Personally, I don't tend to return purchases I make.
As far as the subject of new tools go, unless you're buying a tool that you've personally used before, and know exactly what to expect out of it's performance, there is a certain amount of experimenting going on with trying a new tool. And that should be on the buyer rather than the seller.
Just my $.02.
Contributor
This is off the subject of tools, but when I'm doing a project at home - let's say plumbing - I'll buy everything I might possibly need from my local Home Depot. Then when I finish the project, I'll take back those things I didn't use. HD has no objection to that - I suppose because some people don't return the leftover stuff - and it sure beats having to stop and drive there again to get a few more parts.
Mike
[Even with that, almost every project is a two or three trip event. I just run into stuff that I didn't expect.]
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Contributor
Home projects usually require three trips to the store. The first trip to buy everything you think you need. The second trip to buy the rest of the things you actually need. Then the third trip is to return all the stuff you didn't need.This is off the subject of tools, but when I'm doing a project at home - let's say plumbing - I'll buy everything I might possibly need from my local Home Depot. Then when I finish the project, I'll take back those things I didn't use. HD has no objection to that - I suppose because some people don't return the leftover stuff - and it sure beats having to stop and drive there again to get a few more parts.
Mike
[Even with that, almost every project is a two or three trip event. I just run into stuff that I didn't expect.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
LOL, you really hit the nail on the head, Jim!
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
But Mike, aren't those items in unopened packaging?
If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.
Contributor
Sometimes it is just piece of pipe or fittings with a bar code tag.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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