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Thread: Sounds like United Airlines muffed it

  1. #106
    It is not my belief that corporations should have more rights than the public they serve.

    jtk[/QUOTE]

    Sadly friend, Corporations don't serve the public. They serve their shareholders.

    The only way to make them behave as the public would like, is to vote with our wallets.

  2. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    ...

    The only way to make them behave as the public would like, is to vote with our wallets.
    Well said. Hate to be repetitive, but let's see if the universal public outrage is still on full-rolling-boil for this summer's travel season - - and UA has fares for $5 cheaper than their competitor.

  3. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    Well said. Hate to be repetitive, but let's see if the universal public outrage is still on full-rolling-boil for this summer's travel season - - and UA has fares for $5 cheaper than their competitor.
    I generally agree. There probably isn't an airline that I simply won't ride on. But I shun SouthWest because when I was traveling a lot on business you couldn't get a seat assignment. I would arrive at the airport in time, but I had things to do at the office and didn't go to the airport early. In that case, I would generally be one of the last to board because they boarded (back then) based on when you arrived at the airport. So all the vacation travelers got there early and got first boarding and got the aisle and window seats. I would be stuck in a middle seat.

    I always thought that was a strange way to do business because the business traveler was a frequent traveler while the vacation traveler was a once a year customer. And the business traveler couldn't get to the airport hours ahead of time and just wait around just to get a better seat.

    I understand that SW has changed some of their policies but my distaste for them remains.

    United might run into the same thing. People will ride on them, but they will be the last choice.

    Mike

    [Someone once told me that SouthWest was successful because they managed your expectations - you expected to be treated as cattle by them so people were not offended.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 04-17-2017 at 3:08 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    ...

    I understand that SW has changed some of their policies but my distaste for them remains.

    ...
    I've flown SW for much of my biz travels and love it (...maybe I AM cattle-esque). Get me on, throw me a bag of peanuts, and get me off.

    Not sure how long ago they switched, or your last ride with them, but you can now check-in 24hrs before scheduled departure - which determines your spot in line. Also, the (cattle?) stalls they put at the gate give people a place to stand. It beats everyone crowding the door, while the people who've been called try to climb over.

    SW is faster too. I've watched SW and AA arrive at adjacent gates simultaneously and in 30 minutes SW was loaded & pushing back from the gate, while AA was still trying to clean the cabin. SW seems more democratic than American/USAir: I was near the front with a 'general boarding pass' (or something like that). Then they (AA) board their members in order - Diamond, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Semi-silver, Elite, Demi-elite, Quasi-elite, Nearly-elite, Friends-of-the-elite, service members, families, and oh, yeah you can board too. ...I finally sat down just as the plane arrived. Aaarrggghhh!!

    To each their own.

    Edit: I'll offer a good air travel story, just to counter a bit of the general bashing: Flying SWA out of OKC to Dallas Love in the heat of the summer; flight originated out of Denver and was late; nobody was happy and everybody was hot. Cabin crew was classic Texas friendly, but no-nonsense, as they got everybody seated - explaining the rush repeatedly. At push-back, the Captain announced that there was "no fuel related speed restriction" for the flight (a small cheer went up). We were still climbing when they started serving free drinks. Not positive but we stopped climbing at about 12-15 thousand feet and the pilot nosed over to begin descent and loooonggg final into LUV. He never pulled back on the throttles; the engines were on climb power until about 30 seconds before the flaps came out. Want to see a cabin crew hustle? They finished serving and cleanup in, if memory serves, about 26 minutes of flight time. Everybody on board wanted to buy THEM a drink!
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 04-17-2017 at 3:59 PM. Reason: non-bashing

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    I've flown SW for much of my biz travels and love it (...maybe I AM cattle-esque). Get me on, throw me a bag of peanuts, and get me off.

    Not sure how long ago they switched, or your last ride with them, but you can now check-in 24hrs before scheduled departure - which determines your spot in line. Also, the (cattle?) stalls they put at the gate give people a place to stand. It beats everyone crowding the door, while the people who've been called try to climb over.

    SW is faster too. I've watched SW and AA arrive at adjacent gates simultaneously and in 30 minutes SW was loaded & pushing back from the gate, while AA was still trying to clean the cabin. SW seems more democratic than American/USAir: I was near the front with a 'general boarding pass' (or something like that). Then they (AA) board their members in order - Diamond, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Semi-silver, Elite, Demi-elite, Quasi-elite, Nearly-elite, Friends-of-the-elite, service members, families, and oh, yeah you can board too. ...I finally sat down just as the plane arrived. Aaarrggghhh!!

    To each their own.

    Edit: I'll offer a good air travel story, just to counter a bit of the general bashing: Flying SWA out of OKC to Dallas Love in the heat of the summer; flight originated out of Denver and was late; nobody was happy and everybody was hot. Cabin crew was classic Texas friendly, but no-nonsense, as they got everybody seated - explaining the rush repeatedly. At push-back, the Captain announced that there was "no fuel related speed restriction" for the flight (a small cheer went up). We were still climbing when they started serving free drinks. Not positive but we stopped climbing at about 12-15 thousand feet and the pilot nosed over to begin descent and loooonggg final into LUV. He never pulled back on the throttles; the engines were on climb power until about 30 seconds before the flaps came out. Want to see a cabin crew hustle? They finished serving and cleanup in, if memory serves, about 26 minutes of flight time. Everybody on board wanted to buy THEM a drink!
    You haven't flown AA recently then just as I haven't flown SW recently. Everyone is a boarding number now. 1-8. Seems like it works smoother. As for a flight in and out faster that's so loaded with variables I don't know how you can even make the statement. Fuel load for instance, destination weather, when the next flight was even scheduled to depart. When I flew a couple weeks ago the cleaning crew was already working first class while deplaning was occurring. I really could care less because our corporation goes totally by fares unless the scheduling won't work. But almost always AA is less in the locations I fly out of. They have their aggravations certainly but I am mostly satisfied with their service.

  6. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Blue View Post
    You haven't flown AA recently then ....
    Granted. It has been about 16-18 months since I flew AA.

    As for gate times, AA generally has 1 hour at a gate because that is their required turn-around time (according to friends who are AA pilots); SW has 30 minute gate times because that is their turn-around time (according to my SW pilot neighbor). Both times are based on their respective primary short-haul aircraft (MD-80 and 737). My understanding of the economics is that neither makes any revenue sitting at the gate, so turn-around time is key operating parameter. - - YMMV

    I hear AA is switching to the 737 as well. Maybe gate times will equalize??
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 04-17-2017 at 9:50 PM. Reason: switching

  7. #112
    Yes, the passenger wasn't removed by United employees, but, he were removed by people who had United's blessings. They were acting on United's behalf, therefore United is the company to blame. They could and should have handled this differently, personally, I hope it cost them dearly. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.
    Len

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    Granted. It has been about 16-18 months since I flew AA.

    As for gate times, AA generally has 1 hour at a gate because that is their required turn-around time (according to friends who are AA pilots); SW has 30 minute gate times because that is their turn-around time (according to my SW pilot neighbor). Both times are based on their respective primary short-haul aircraft (MD-80 and 737). My understanding of the economics is that neither makes any revenue sitting at the gate, so turn-around time is key operating parameter. - - YMMV

    I hear AA is switching to the 737 as well. Maybe gate times will equalize??
    Sorry but I still dispute that. 30 minutes at the gate? So they are using the emergency chutes so they can start boarding immediately after it mates up to the sky bridge? Boarding start to finish allows 30 minutes. Granted usually it finishes in 20 minutes but then there are all the preflight instructions. I would say 15 minutes on the inbound to deplane everyone. Even if the cleaning is done by the time everyone deplanes you are talking 45 minutes. I realize sometimes planes are pushed back ahead of schedule sometimes but that often isn't the case. I did fly on a 737-800 a few weeks ago. It was larger but not roomier than a Super MD 80. It simply had two rows of 3 seats.

  9. #114
    Ah, Airlines and Health Care. Two massive industries that (in the US at least) leave most recipients of the services thoroughly disillusioned. We simultaneously need them and hate them. Probably also two of the industries with the most powerful lobbying presence in DC.

    Regardless, whether it's "legal" or not, I'd love to see a resolution that would be more civilized than busting out the teeth, brutalizing, and dragging off an unarmed person like that. Aren't we better than that?

  10. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Blue View Post
    Sorry but I still dispute that. 30 minutes at the gate?
    OK.

    I've watched them do it sitting in adjacent departure area. I've also been onboard, connecting into LUV thru OKC (thanks to Wright amendment), when from cracking the door on arrival to push-back took 23 minutes. Feel free to dispute that too.

  11. #116
    That was quick. United settled with Dr. Dao for an undisclosed amount.

    And Southwest announced a new policy of not overbooking, period.

    Nice.

  12. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    That was quick. United settled with Dr. Dao for an undisclosed amount.

    And Southwest announced a new policy of not overbooking, period.

    Nice.
    Yep, United didn't want this issue hanging over them.

    I know some people didn't think Dr. Dao did the right thing, but he made one part of travel a bit better for all of us. I thank him for that, even though that was not his intention.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  13. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    That was quick. United settled with Dr. Dao for an undisclosed amount.

    And Southwest announced a new policy of not overbooking, period.

    Nice.
    Good news!

  14. #119
    And did you see South West's ad? "We only beat our competitors, not our customers." Again, United could had made arrangements for limo for displaced passengers. Lets see $800 each and get to Louisville a couple hours late. "Get in the limo honey, NOW!

  15. #120
    I think one of the problems was that the $800 was in the form of a voucher, not cash. To a lot of people, a voucher is not of much value. You have to be planning to take another trip fairly soon and on the same airline. If it was $800 cash you could go buy some special tools - now that would get some volunteers.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

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