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Thread: My Dream Shop Thread (Arizona)

  1. #1
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    My Dream Shop Thread (Arizona)

    I am expecting to get a contract today on a property that will allow me to build my dream shop. I will be leaning heavily on the advice of folks here as to the design elements. Here are the basics.
    • The house is in a nice custom home neighborhood a mile from where I live now and 2 miles from my office. It sits on a 3/4 acre lot and currently has a tennis court on the lot that will be removed to build the shop.
    • The relevant zoning setbacks to the side is only 15 feet and 30 feet to the back of the lot. I can build up to 30 feet high and lot coverage limit would allow up to 11,000 sq feet of shop
    • We will build the shop to match the house, same materials and style. I will have a long patio facing the back yard with windows and maybe some french doors.
    • I'm thinking of building about 1,800 sq ft, but open to larger.
    • I want a room to spray finishes in with a bank of filters on one wall and an explosion proof fan to exhaust.
    • it will have a small bath
    • It will be 2 by 6 construction, very will insulated and have a heat pump sized to keep it any temp I want.


    I am thinking of 30 by 60 but the aspect ratio can be whatever I want given the space I have. Key will be how to layout the machines and how much and where to have open space. I want to accommodate the following:
    • large sliding table saw
    • single head 37" wide belt sander
    • 24" Euro planer with outfeed table
    • large jointer
    • separate shaper
    • oscillating edge sander
    • 24" disc sander
    • Oscillating spindle sander
    • maybe 2 band saws
    • Large Dewalt radial arm saw with lots of bench on either side. I have 20 feet now and want maybe 30 feet in the new shop. Storage cabinets under and the saw infeed and outfeed tables on either side. I have the saw now and will add a tiger stop to it.
    • Drill press
    • compressor and dust collector in a sound deadened room
    • vacuum membrane table, ideally I could fold up against the wall when not using
    • probably more


    One thought is tools mostly around the perimeter and work/assembly area in the middle. other ideas? Any CAD models for the larger tools like I listed above that I could drop into a 3D CAD tool to model?

    Another forum member and friend Rick Fisher recently built a shop with a basement and he ran all the dust ducting and electrical in the basement under the floor. Very slick but in AZ most construction is slab and I suspect doing what Rick did would add like 30-50% to the cost of construction.

    Another thought is to have the slab poured 12" below grade and to have a raise panel access floor system like they use in data centers. Apparently you can get used floor systems super cheap, like $4 a Sq ft and they can support as much as 10,000 lbs per sq foot. Something like this.

    https://www.accessfloorsystems.com/i...rlock-kit.html

    Maybe instead of the concrete filled steel panels I would just buy the structure and put in thick plywood panels, maybe 2" thick as they would be 24" by 24". This would allow me to run the ducts and electric under the floor but still access for changes.

    Any initial thoughts?

    thanks...joe

  2. #2
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    I am a big fan of having dimensions divisable by 8. 32X64 would be great. I used the grizzly shop planer to place some tools - here was my layout. I have a drive through setup planned. north east is booth area. You will have to add to your layout your bath etc. My ductwork is overhead. Planer/ jointer drum sander shoot into open space as the table saw. power will drop down with ductwork. Circuits were ran in ceiling.

    Last edited by Mike Heidrick; 04-14-2017 at 2:50 PM.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  3. #3
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    Mike, what do you think of a raised floor idea?

  4. #4
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    Our datacenters at work all have crazy raised floor. I think you will be cooling lots and lots of unused space. I am a concrete guy. Id run chilled water through mine (pex) if I was in AZ in addition to mini splits on walls. If you want infloor ductwork do that and run in floor BIG conduit for power drops. Do several layouts and see how many open floor spots you need. You will be trenching in there for the water/small bath anyway so just get it all done. You could do single rows/branches of raised floor maybe.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  5. #5
    If I could, with the list of equipment you listed, would look at 40' wide. Have you considered a stem wall with a wood floor system? I have poured some stem walls, used plywood, and the footing itself is the hard part. I used gates form ties, and 5/8" rods. If you had 4' under the floor, it would not be difficult to put your dc piping under the floor. Wiring for your machines as well.

  6. You mentioned you can go up to 30ft in height. Building up is usually cheaper than building out. Have you considered doing a mezzanine or second floor and using that as a finishing/spray area? A small used electric forklift could be used to move items between the ground and second floor for finishing, and could also be used for moving machines, loading/unloading materials from your vehicle, etc. A used 3000lb capacity Raymond stand-up electric "Easi-Reach" forklift, with a battery and charger, can be found for $3000-5000. They're pretty small and easy to park out of the way. This would nix your raised floor idea (probably), but honestly I think you'd be better off burying the conduit and ducting in the cement slab and being done with it.

  7. #7
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    For me, I'd be looking at normal workflow when it comes to machine arrangement so you can keep most used tools together with appropriate spacing and have a saner DC setup, too. I would separate machining from hand-work from assembly from finishing if given the opportunity to do so. And don't forget space to store finished work, especially if you are taking on larger commissions.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    For me, I'd be looking at normal workflow when it comes to machine arrangement so you can keep most used tools together with appropriate spacing and have a saner DC setup, too. I would separate machining from hand-work from assembly from finishing if given the opportunity to do so. And don't forget space to store finished work, especially if you are taking on larger commissions.
    The building will likely have a covered patio along the length of the sidewall with windows and a couple of French doors. I will have a 10-12 foot wide door on one end. It's really nice quite a bit of the year here and I'd to work near open doors and windows if possible.

    I'm thinking unloaded raw materials near the door with the planer and jointer first. Then the slider and then sanders, etc. Rolling carts and benches to work and assembly. A hand tool bench near the wall of windows and doors. I will have the bath probably where the large door is because that puts it closest to water and sewer. A room for finishing at the far end of the shop.

    Any ideas on how big I should make a room for finishing?

  9. #9
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    I have recently given thought to another approach to vertical ducting for machines that do not get used a lot as I hate vertical ducting but I have not got the floor area you will have so perhaps that colours my thinking, in fact I am sure it does. Because I want the floor area clear of machines that only get occasional use I have decided to use swinging booms that can get pushed back onto the walls and the vertical drop is no longer in the way. The transition from the main duct is from a short length of flexible pipe, rigid duct along the boom then a flexible drop onto the machine. The beauty of this is the boom can be used for other stuff as well, to clean a messy bench when doing a lot of hand planing etc, anytime you want to do something messy it can be used then pushed back out of the way.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  10. #10
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    Sounds like a fun project Joe. Here's some food for thought.

    From a building materials standpoint you'll get more sq ft of floor area per lineal foot of wall the more square your building. 30 x 60 = 180 ln.ft of wall, 1800 sq. ft. of floor space. 40 x 50 also = 180 ln.ft. of wall but will yield 2000 sq. ft of floor space.

    My old shop was almost square which made for a kind of circular work flow. In the loading dock, around the room and back to the loading dock. My new shop, as necessitated by mountain terrain, is twice as long as it is wide making for a linear work flow. In the front, out the back which is actually out the side into a warehouse/garage bay. I like the extra wall space but I'd have to give the edge, slightly, to the circular work flow.

    I have ceiling drops for DC. One main drop comes down at a vertical panel saw that sticks up in the air already so no big deal. I had a chance to visit a big, institutional cabinet shop recently and all his drops were from the (20'+) ceiling. He had some huge machines but acknowledged that things change and exposed ceiling drops are more future proof, FWIW.

    Good Luck!

  11. #11
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    You might consider planning ahead, for when you sell, or no longer use the building (is that delicate enough?). I would consider at least framing in the structure for a large RV door, so it could be a garage, as well as drawing up rough plans of how the building could be converted to a Casita, or whatever, and arranging the plumbing to suit.

    In my case, my daughter tells me she will convert my 1600' shop to a skating rink.

    As far as shop ideas...I have a 60' covered porch along the side facing the house, which we love. Nice windows on that side, which are shielded from direct sunlight. I also put six 2X8' skylights on the side of the roof that faces away from the sun...great light inside with no direct sunlight heat gain. Ceiling fans would be nice, too. I have mine, but never installed them yet.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  12. #12
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    I will also have the architect look to see if we can have it connect to the house in a clean way so that it could become "house" sq footage later. I was planning to have the architect plan for a bedroom suites so we can put the plumbing under the slab that potential future use.

    On the aspect ration you are right that I can get more Sq footage on a 40 by 50 but I want scissor trusses and a 40 foot span is a lot.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Jensen View Post
    Any ideas on how big I should make a room for finishing?
    The type of work you intend to produce is going to influence the space you need for your finishing room...you'll want to be able to have plenty of room to be able to get to all sides of the largest components you'll be finishing without being cramped and having lack of space interfere with your spray technique. You'll want to have doors big enough to deal with that, too. And a lot of light from all angles...

    I actually don't have a dedicated finishing room...aside from no space available for it, I only spray water borne and don't need the specialized ventilation system that someone working with solvent based products will need.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #14
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    Workflow is based on a circle. Where it comes in and how it goes out. I rarely see anybody on this or any other forum set up shop correctly without a bottleneck somewhere...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The type of work you intend to produce is going to influence the space you need for your finishing room...you'll want to be able to have plenty of room to be able to get to all sides of the largest components you'll be finishing without being cramped and having lack of space interfere with your spray technique. You'll want to have doors big enough to deal with that, too. And a lot of light from all angles...

    I actually don't have a dedicated finishing room...aside from no space available for it, I only spray water borne and don't need the specialized ventilation system that someone working with solvent based products will need.
    Jim I use some of each but mostly waterborne. I am mostly want a place to spray where I can have a fan pull the overspray away from the work. I might even do an open sided booth that vents outside.

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