Why buy European machines?

[peter gagliardi]

But for many guys Peter, driving a GMC or Ford gets you there pretty nicely as well. My parents emigrated from Yugoslavia.. and I wouldnt want a Yugo either, lol. But we did pretty well for years with our mid line Italian equipment.

Sometimes I feel that the stuff most talked about is the really low end stuff and the really high end stuff. With the majority of gear - being somewhere within the 80% that falls in between those limits, not mentioned much. I find that odd. You don't usually go from the extreme bottom to the extreme top in many other things.

Andrew, I don't disagree with any of that. I have plenty of machines that would fall under "mid level" but as long as they produce a quality and accuracy that works, they stay. I only have a couple that would be considered "high end" . My Martin shapers, and Martin slider.
The saw has at this point, several other fairly competitive options in the market, but there currently, from what I can assess, is nothing that competes with the functionality and speed of the shaper- time savings are very obvious for my type of workload.
I still have bandsaws, jointers, and a planer, along with mortisers that are all at least 75 years old- That technology has not advanced enough, in my opinion to warrant the expenditure.

[Roger Marty]

I'd be unemployed.

No doubt!

I'm a hobbyist. Just ordered myself a SawStop PCS as a (safety) upgrade over my cheap Ridgid R4512. But you guys are making me wonder if I should have gotten a European combo machine! Don't think I'm ready for a $10k outlay though

[David Kumm]

At the hobby level, used Euro is a pretty good way to have good stuff at a price not much more than low end. My SCMI SI16 slider was about 5K- medium end but heavier than Felder 900 series but less than Martin or Altendorf. SCMI T130 slider and Martin T21 at about 4K each. SAC 530 planer for 4K. I'm not a bottom feeder so my costs are more than some others. With a little work and problem solving you can have the best of both worlds. Not for everyone and not great if you need to make money from machines, but the option is there. The 4-5K range is about what the quasi Euro Qing Dao produced stuff costs.

Andrew, Cantek is pretty nice stuff. I would put those Taiwan machines in the mid range Euro class. Dave

[jack duren]

If you are making a living, one should but the best one can afford.

[Mike Fritz]

Extreme Woodworker is starting what will probably be a great new series of videos on Youtube that turn all this good discussion into real demonstrations. His first video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_A24SfM5KI shows how to rip a live edge board on his Martin slider. His next video is the one I really want to see about the different ways to do rip cuts on the slider.

[Martin Wasner]

Are there rip saws made in Europe?

[Darcy Warner]

Are there rip saws made in Europe?

Scm m3 is probably one of the most recognizable gang rips from there.

The Japanese made some nice SLR's (kikukawa 3/4 scale mattison) I have one of their gang rip saws, pretty substantial machine that came from the factory with a 75hp motor.

[Jim Becker]

There's a difference between good enough tooling and excessive.

While that is an essentially true statement, each individual is personally responsible for defining "excessive" relative to their own needs, desires and opinions. Using myself as an example, for the limited amount of time I get at the present time to enjoy my woodworking avocation due to work and some physical issues, many folks would likely view my shop setup and equipment as "excessive". I don't, however, because I truly enjoy the tooling choices I made and invested in. Whether I'm building a major project (all for my own use in my own home, primarily...I rarely take commissions) or a simple piece of beekeeping woodenware, I don't feel guilty about using my 8'6" slider to cut the parts. In fact, I'm building a birdhouse today to replace one that's reached it's end of life.

[Jim Finn]

The only European equipment I have, are two Hegner scroll saws. Made in Germany. Today you can buy a scroll saw for under $100, better ones cost $450 and the best Hegner cost over $3000. All cut well, about the same. (I have a 1988 Jet scroll saw that still runs fine) The biggest difference I see, is that Hegners have much more durability than other saws do, and parts for my 1986 Hegner are still available. Not available for my Jet. In the past, I have had a $450 saw last just 20 months.

[Frederick Skelly]

.........many folks would likely view my shop setup and equipment as "excessive". I don't, however, because I truly enjoy the tooling choices I made and invested in.

Then that's all that matters!

[Joe Calhoon]

Are there rip saws made in Europe?

Not so much anymore except like the multiblade CNC type like Weinig sells. SCM also had a single bladeSLR called the M1
Ogam was another Italian mfg of these. Still see some in shops there.
Ogam rip saw.jpg
Some German shops still have single blade SLRs. Here is a nice oldie.
German SLR.jpg
And here is the Japanese type Darcy was talking about. This is in a US door shop. I got to use it, good saw. Unusual shop built fence.
Japan SLR.jpg

The Europeans think these type saws are dangerous. We have a small Taiwan SLR that has worked well for us and feel with care it is safe. Most small and medium shops in Europe use band saws for ripping. All have S4S machines so the rough rip is no problem.
Here is one from a UK shop.
UK Band rip.jpg

[Jim Andrew]

I am a woodworker at heart. Enjoyed building things on the farm as a child, wood shop class in school, majored in industrial arts in college, and then had a career as a house builder. Back when I was working for a living, never was able to afford a really nice wood shop. Had machines that were moved from job to job, which was never better than a sliding miter saw and a table saw and smaller jointer. All that stuff was heavy and got harder to move as I got older. After I gave up working for a living, I set up a nice wood shop, and have done a few upgrades as I go along. Really enjoy having a MM 16 band saw and a Hammer slider. Seems whenever I get a better machine, the quality of my projects improves.

[Martin Wasner]

Not so much anymore except like the multiblade CNC type like Weinig sells. SCM also had a single bladeSLR called the M1
Ogam was another Italian mfg of these. Still see some in shops there.
Ogam rip saw.jpg
Some German shops still have single blade SLRs. Here is a nice oldie.
German SLR.jpg
And here is the Japanese type Darcy was talking about. This is in a US door shop. I got to use it, good saw. Unusual shop built fence.
Japan SLR.jpg

The Europeans think these type saws are dangerous. We have a small Taiwan SLR that has worked well for us and feel with care it is safe. Most small and medium shops in Europe use band saws for ripping. All have S4S machines so the rough rip is no problem.
Here is one from a UK shop.
UK Band rip.jpg

My moulding guy has one of those Japanese rip saws. They have pretty high praise of it and recommended looking for when I was shopping for a rip saw. I haven't seen much other than Mattison, Diehl and some Taiwanese rip saws around here.

What kind of feed rates can be achieved on a bandsaw when ripping? In 4/4, a good slr should be pushing 100'/min pretty easily. My Diehl is the runt of the litter and does 60'/min. I couldn't say no for $4k though.

[peter gagliardi]

I have one of those Kikukawa RP12 SLR's. It is a very well built machine, with excellent fit and finish. My only complaint, is that the SLOW speed is 75 fpm, which works for any 4/4 stock, but a bit fast for some of the 8/4 domestic hardwoods . It only has a 10 hp motor, and I think a lot of the bogging down could be solved with a riving knife, which of course I have not seen on any SLR. As the board closes back in at the back of the blade, it robs horsepower.
No room in blade housing as made, so I am going to put a VFD on the feed motor, and I think I will be able to dial it back on 8/4 to 50 fpm nicely.

[david coelho]

I own a Felder CF 741 S combination machine. The primary driving factor was the limitation of my workshop, 22x20ft, and the desire to have full functionality, e.g. saw, jointer, planer, shaper, mortising. I was able to fit all that functionality into my small space. The second consideration was the dramatic improvement in my experience in accuracy and ease of work flow with the sliding table...while one must think about things differently, I can say that my productivity is way up and my accuracy is way up. I can break down a 4x8 sheet of plywood with 1/100 mm accuracy without any measurements, just throw the sheet onto the sliding table, set the (DRO) stops, and cut (I've also got pneumatic clamps which helps as well), easily 5x faster turn-around than my old conventional table saw approach. And in general, the overall build quality of these machines is way beyond anything that I've seen on the conventional side of things...all the fittings, adjustments, table surfaces, are really really well made and everything is well thought through and just works. And, one no longer needs all those jigs...with sliding tables, there are really only 3 or 4 add-ons that are general purpose that can accomadate any scenario....obviously a time saver, not needing to build a jig for each new task. But, yes, this quality is very expensive...