Why buy European machines?

[Rick Fisher]

This planer is just about set up .. I thought I would post some pics of the build quality of a Euro planer.




That gear motor and reducer are for the feed on the planer. A VFD creates variable feed speed. The main motor is 10HP .. There is a third motor which is raises and lowers the planer bed. The gear motor and drive impressed me.. This planer will feed 15 - 80 Feet per minute.

This machine was ordered with a segmented infeed roller and chip breaker. It allows you to run multiple pieces through, even if they aren't quite the same thickness, with no disturbance in feeding. The other option is a rubber infeed roller.



That chain runs the outfeed rollers. Its an enormous chain.



Overall this machine is 2700 lbs out of the box .. about 1.5 tons on the pallet and crated.



The planer bed is grooved and Automatically lubricates itself .. ( rather than applying wax when it gets sticky )

It fired up for the first time tonight, its a quiet machine. No vibration, no clunks or groans. No sharp corners or un-hemmed metal.



The big draw of this machine was the ability to switch from Metric to Imperial without any fuss. You hold the P button for an extended time and it flips to the opposite unit of measure. You punch in a thickness and hit start, the bed adjusts automatically, and its fast !! .. It can be raised with a foot switch or by hitting a button that advances the table a pre-set amount.

[David Kumm]

Great pictures Rick. Are the chipbreaker fingers, AL, Steel, or cast iron? The pressure bar on the newer machines is much lighter than on the old iron planers. How is the Martin designed and is it easy to adjust? Is the insert head a Martin design? Most are Tersa and I think it is only recently that Martin offers that option. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

That's not that heavy of a chain, whitney, buss and Greenlee ran heavy chains and large gears to drive everything. I don't trust the electronic controls on the newer equipment for more than 6 years or so.
Real fun fixing bad electronic controls on this newer stuff.

[Larry Edgerton]

That's not that heavy of a chain, whitney, buss and Greenlee ran heavy chains and large gears to drive everything. I don't trust the electronic controls on the newer equipment for more than 6 years or so.
Real fun fixing bad electronic controls on this newer stuff.

My SCM has the same chain as well. And I also feel the same way about electronics. Why buy a machine that will last 50 years with an electronics package that may be unservicable in far less years. Not only that but if you are like me you are at the mercy of techs that are a long ways away and very expensive. My planer has a DC motor for table lift with fast and slow controls, all very simple really and it has not been off even a little bit in twenty years.

Panhans makes a shaper I like that is a basic version of their computerized shaper but with mechanical readouts, and I would like to see more of that. As nice as a new Martin shaper I would not buy one in their totally electronic state with no mechanical overrides. Beautiful stuff to be sure, but in the future I do not believe that they will hold their value like the older models. I just watched a Panhans shaper with all the tricks about 14 years old with a bad mother board go for $4200 in what looked like otherwise perfect shape. A shaper that would be over $70k to replace.

But then, I'm old.......

[Warren Lake]

manufacturers must know by now they have electronic issues in time, making stuff without manual over ride makes no sense unless you want a deliberate make work project for future income. If you have a failure and have a deadline its pressure you dont need.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

manufacturers must know by now they have electronic issues in time, making stuff without manual over ride makes no sense unless you want a deliberate make work project for future income. If you have a failure and have a deadline its pressure you dont need.

My Cantek planer, and wide belt sander use the same electronic controller on both machines. Its very accurate (repeatable and accurate to a thousandth of an inch). Also metric to imperial with one button. Similar controls as on the Martin.

Both machines, however have a manual crank, and also separate push-buttons to raise/lower the tables which are independant to the digital controller. Also, Akhurst here in Canada stocks a spare control unit in Toronto. They claim on average a 10+ year life in an 8 hour/day setting. I felt pretty confident knowing all that to go with the electronic controls. Certainly speeds up things in the shop..

I have no qualms about buying electronics. But, its nice to have the manual option to still use the machine until it can be repaired.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

I have a few machines (edge bander and construction borer) with the mechanical read outs. They are fine too, but I prefer the digital for use and ease of use.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

And Rick, I never got a reply to my question regarding your Griggio... and now that you have the Martin, I am still curious as to why you had said the Martin is far superior to the Griggio? Especially now that you can use the Martin and compare both.

[David Kumm]

Electronic controls are at least gotten more modular. When I bought SAC planer used I opened it up and saw a couple of controllers that looked like proprietary designs and the rest off the shelf. Found a place that still stocked some SAC parts and bought the proprietary stuff for a few hundred. Figured it was decent insurance. I think anything proprietary on a machine should come with a spare. 90+% can be replaced but the 10% can be a killer. Good thing that most is replaceable as my experience has been that the compact new stuff takes less room but doesn't last nearly as long as the old electrics. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Andrew.

The Griggio is actually sitting right next to the Martin right now .. The difference between them is refinement. I actually rebuilt the Griggio, changed the cutterhead, etc. The controller for height on the Griggio is painful. You kinda make electric stabs at the height your shooting for. Repeat-ability is impossible.
The Martin, you type in 1.21" .. hit start, and its done. Or you type in 31.2 mm .. same thing.

The electronics argument to me is a bit weak. The parts are all modular. Siemens etc.. If there was a bunch of 6 or 7 year old Euro machines out there with blown electronics, I would be able to find them online, I would have bought one and fixed it .. I have a good friend who's and electrical engineer and woodworker, that would be a dream crisis for him.

This machine is not in the same caliber as a Whitney or a Buss, those are 3 or 4 times the size and would probably be 3 times the cost too .. lol . Aren't some of those 50 hp? This type of machine would be comparable to a Felder or SCM ..

When I got the Martin Table saw it had a Pizatto switch that I actually broke when setting it up. I ordered a new one from the Canadian Distributor for Pizatto ? Who I had never heard of .. it was 1/4 the cost of going through the factory channels. The parts on these machines are all OEM .. the gear box and motor are made by Nord. Martin especially is all European parts. Even the screwdriver they give you is a Wera.. lol

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm not a fan of newer electronics either....but then again none of the manufacturers care I'm a one, (occasionally two), man shop and have to watch every dollar. The guys who are buying these machines are in a whole other league. I'd be interested to see demographics on the shops buying this machines. I'd guess they're not huge shops, but smaller to mid-sized shops that are banking good money. Probably a lot of commercial work. I'd also guess they're planning on these machines paying for themselves in ten years or less? Be interesting to know anyway.

I do know one guy who has a nice Martin CNC shaper in his shop. It had been sitting dormant for several years last time I was there. Electronics problem which probably wouldn't have been a big deal when they were busy, but now they're down to 2 guys and the money for new parts is tighter. My old outdated T-21 takes longer to setup, and repeatability is up to the operator....but she's still working after all these years and for a one-man shop, that's all I need

[Patrick Irish]

I know this is nowhere in the ballpark of the Martin equipment, but my Hammer combo machine gets me a sliding table saw, 12" jointer and planer (with helical cutter), and shaper w/ sliding table.....for $10k, delivered, new. I don't think I could buy equivalent functionality in North American-style machinery for less money.

All depends on space and what wood a person processes.

My used Unisaw was $700 after adding a retro riving knife. 8" Grizzly spiral was $700 used. 16" Powermatic planer $800 after installing VFD to power it. Incra router table + Bosch router & 100 bits $800.

Only thing I bought new so far was a ridigid spindle sander.

German sliders or all in one machines do seem like a good value when pricing things at retail.

[Patrick Walsh]

I'm gonna be the first one to say nice freaking machine!

I would be more excited about the day that showed up than just about anything I can think up wanting for. A car a truck a second home a fancy vacation, you name it I'd be most excited about that machine.

Clearly i I would have to take the house for financial reasons. Still i would still not be even half as excited as I would be about that machine.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Congrats Rick.
Martin machinery is awesome. I will be curious how you like the helical head? I know Martin is selling about 80% of their T45's still with the Tersa heads. If I was to order a T45 today, the cutterhead would be the toughest decision.

David, the helical heads are produced by Martin now. They call them Xplane cutterheads.

As far as "electronic" concerns??? What year is this boys?

[Rick Fisher]

Hey John .. I'll let ya know .. I spent the day running metal duct and wiring..