Update on the Bosch ReaXX vs Sawstop issue

[Greg Peterson]

I'm ambivalent about the matter. I do think the SS is a very well made TS. I've not used one, but have seen them and played around with them in show rooms. They certainly pass the eye test.
I've not heard any complaints about the quality of the SS. I've come to the conclusion it is simply a fine tool.
That said, I find their business tactics unsavory. I'm confident they've done everything to the letter of the law, but...
SS has designed a fine tool but it will be a challenge to muster any sympathy for them once competition is allowed into the market.

[Roger Marty]

I think they may actually be in real trouble which is a shame, they build nice saws.

I highly doubt it. They're a small company with a nice product in a niche market. It seems unlikely a competitor can significantly undercut them in price for the cabinet saws. I can see their jobsite product being eaten away a bit by mass-market (Home Depot) saws that come out with cheaper alternatives.

[Simon MacGowen]

Very happy with my SawStop, a user for over a decade with zero tablesaw incident, and I expect the saw will serve me well for another decade, regardless of whether its patent runs out or not. I support SAWSTOP but welcome any legal competition against it as competition encourages better service or price.

I would like to see another cabinet saw with finger saving technology and quality similar to SawStop which will drive prices down for many woodworkers who dont want to pay $3000 to $5000 for a SawStop. They deserve to be protected by a safer saw which I get to enjoy all these years.

Simon

[Roger Marty]

I highly doubt it. They're a small company with a nice product in a niche market. It seems unlikely a competitor can significantly undercut them in price for the cabinet saws. I can see their jobsite product being eaten away a bit by mass-market (Home Depot) saws that come out with cheaper alternatives.

The other reason I doubt SawStop is in trouble-- while the patents surely cover aspects like capacitive coupling as a flesh detector for a saw blade and etc., I suspect there is also a fair amount of trade secret and know-how in actually engineering the system. Is an old-school tool company going to pony up for the engineering know-how to productize the system? Bosch clearly has the engineering know-how-- hell, Bosch is the company that designs/manufactures the radars used for Tesla's autopilot driving feature. But Jet? Or Delta? Those are old-school tool companies that likely don't have an once of software or electronics talent. And they may not have the money to invest in it either.

[mreza Salav]

When the original battle started unlike many others in that thread (posted here) I suspected this would happen; no surprise here at all for me.
Eventually, they will be other players in the field. Bosch system seems superior for small saws but I suspect it would be difficult to adapt to larger saws.

[Kurt Kintner]

I'm with Nick..... I seldom think of the safety feature.... My PCS was a joy to assemble...
The quality of the whole package, IMO, is the best in the market....

[Roger Marty]

When the original battle started unlike many others in that thread (posted here) I suspected this would happen; no surprise here at all for me.
Eventually, they will be other players in the field. Bosch system seems superior for small saws but I suspect it would be difficult to adapt to larger saws.

This guy put his hand into both systems. Looks like the SawStop resulted in less blood than the Reaxx

https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools...jss-mca/14982/

[Scott Brader]

There has to be more to it than just the capacitance sensing blade technology. That's been around for ages in the medical field with various surgical and cast saws. SawStop may make a great saw, but their owner/founder rubs me the wrong way. I would take a SS if I won one somewhere, but I won't support him with my $$$$.

[Charles P. Wright]

The other reason I doubt SawStop is in trouble-- while the patents surely cover aspects like capacitive coupling as a flesh detector for a saw blade and etc., I suspect there is also a fair amount of trade secret and know-how in actually engineering the system. Is an old-school tool company going to pony up for the engineering know-how to productize the system? Bosch clearly has the engineering know-how-- hell, Bosch is the company that designs/manufactures the radars used for Tesla's autopilot driving feature. But Jet? Or Delta? Those are old-school tool companies that likely don't have an once of software or electronics talent. And they may not have the money to invest in it either.

Stanley Black & Decker (DeWalt) and TTI (Ryobi, Ridgid) surely have the resources to produce a job site saw if they want. I think they might maintain a good following in the cabinet saw market, but the job site saw market is going to be won on price.

[Mike Henderson]

Stanley Black & Decker (DeWalt) and TTI (Ryobi, Ridgid) surely have the resources to produce a job site saw if they want. I think they might maintain a good following in the cabinet saw market, but the job site saw market is going to be won on price.

I doubt if price is going to be the only determinant. A contractor needs a saw that will not break down, and safety features become very important for insurance reasons. Additionally, a serious accident will generally shut down a work site and that costs money also.

A contractor could easily lose a lot more than the few dollars s/he saves buying the cheapest job site saw.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Woodshop News article says they will be able to provide parts for existing customers...I hope that that gets clarifies for those who have already purchased the tool.

[Simon MacGowen]

Woodshop News article says they will be able to provide parts for existing customers...I hope that that gets clarifies for those who have already purchased the tool.

Up to whatever existing inventory they have or whatever they can produce inside US as the ban is about imports, and the retailers no longer can import new parts, if my understanding of the news is correct.

Simon

[Dave Sabo]

A few thoughts:

Do you think Bosch is so inept as to not have already stockpiled inventory before the ban actually took effect ? Certainly they didn't wake up yesterday and have an oh crap moment wondering if they'd have egg on their face and upset the few people who did jump on board with their saw by not having parts in hand to keep them running for a few years.

You do know that bosch has manufacturing facilities in the U.S. And they make cartridges similar to Reaxx for the auto industry?

Do we suppose Stanley/B&D and TTi have been sitting still all these years since they decided not to license Gass's device. They have capable management teams that plan long term too. As well as designers, engineers and budgets for coming up with a similar solution. They also have a humongous and established distribution pipeline to sell their new saw. Something SS will never have.

While Bosch can't import the stuff, I can't see a practical way to keep an individual from getting Amazon to deliver a cartridge or two to their doorstep from the European distribution chain. Or one of the Bosch forum members from bringing back a couple from a vacation or business trip to keep a fellow member's saw working.

Do do we think that Delta, Powermatic /Jet ,or General won't be able to source a similar solution after the patent expires to add to their saws for less than $1000? Do we think those brands still have enough storied history to compete with SS?

Who wants to bet me $100 that the Chineese (who manufacture SS) don't already have copies of the plans to Gass's gizmos and also have their own manufacturing and marketing plan ready to roll out a cheap copy once the patent expires ? Even if they don't have it on the shelf today, do you think it'd take them more than a quarter to reverse engineer it when the expiration date lands ?

Anyone flown on a Wright plane lately ? Bet you've been on a Boeing though.

[Art Mann]

Those of you who refer to the capacitive sensing technology as some sort of high tech near miracle need to realize that the same technology is used all over the place in industrial applications and has been for decades. Gass just thought of a clever way to apply existing technology.

[Todd Willhoit]

This guy put his hand into both systems. Looks like the SawStop resulted in less blood than the Reaxx

https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools...jss-mca/14982/

Slapping/slamming a palm and dragging a finger are hardly controlled tests. In addition the Bosch result images are close-up vs the SawStop images making it difficult to compare visually. From the text, "The results [from the SawStop] were very similar to what we experienced from the Bosch Reaxx."