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Thread: Chisels and sharpening stone and...

  1. #1

    Chisels and sharpening stone and...

    So I believe in the cry once not every time you use it (within reason). I know chisels can be one of those things that can range from super cheap chinese crap to hundreds for basically usable art.

    It will be my first set of chisels, other than the single 3/4" dewalt beat anything with chisel I have. Obviously I have to weigh the value of use and practicality of the cost of the set.

    I've been doing my research on a chisel set and it seems that most people have a suggestion of a set of Narex chisels. Looking at the 8pc premium narex set for ~$100 on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L726IO2..._cz7.ybPW7SHGC



    I'm also not quite sure if the difference between this set.

    Narex 6 pc set 6mm (1/4"), 10 (3/8"), 12 (1/2"), 16 (5/8"), 20 (13/16") , 26 (1 1/16") Woodworking Chisels in Wooden Presentation Box 853053 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0165WKKY2..._xckazb5GMPC9K

    and this set (other than the obvious extra chisel sizes. One has dark handles and the other has light colored handles. Just a new version?


    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GPCG5BA..._kD7.ybCR2R2PV

    Obviously everyone says you need to sharpen the chisels to get the most out of them. What sharpening stones would come recommended?

    Any other chisel sets I should consider? Should I get a smaller set but higher quality? Anything else I should be looking at for a "starter kit"?
    Last edited by Kevin Vasko; 04-26-2017 at 9:29 AM.

  2. #2
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    You have asked one of the "big" questions that has been discussed many, many times with many different and all good answers. Much of the answer will depend on what you intend to do with the chisels and what your budget looks like. Sharpening is another very "big" (maybe the "biggest") question and will result in many answers, most all good. At the very least, please run a search on "best sharpening stones" or "best sharpening method" to get a basic idea of the differences between using sandpaper, water stones (man made and natural), ceramic stones, diamond plates and oil stones for sharpening. There are also many useful You Tube videos on sharpening wood working blades as well. As to chisels, I will say one thing - before jumping in on one of the bazillion-chisel sets, consider buying one chisel (maybe 1/4" ?) and trying it before buying the whole set. Also, in my opinion, you may not need a bazillion chisels any time soon and they all will require sharpening now and as you work along. For furniture building, a 1/4" is very useful for mortise/groove cleaning and dovetail work, plus a 1/2" for general paring. Some will suggest buying old, quality chisels and refurbishing them. That works. Some will say that the average weekend wworker will not tell the difference between a quality chisel and a less quality tool. Could very well be. Some will say to buy good quality chisels (one at a time if $ is tight) and in the size needed as the need comes up. That works too. Your budget comes into play here. Especially in the case of the more expensive chisels, the try-one-first-method is a good idea in my opinion. There are nuances in the chisel metal makeup and handle size/shape. Sharpening is something that can burn through cash if you jump around between methods (with different stones for each method) and is something that you need to think about. You will be told by many that their particular preferred method is best (for any number of reasons) and they may be right. I believe that any one of two or three different methods will work just fine but you need to pick a method and learn to use that method fully without shortcuts or serious modification. I also believe that whichever chisels and which sharpening method you select will not be the one you end up with over a period of time. Review the info out there, make a choice and move on. Chisels should be easy to re sell and maybe even (I have no experience here) sharpening stones/plates.
    David

  3. #3
    i have the Naren four piece set for 50. Id get that and then add individuals if you need them.

  4. #4
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    "Very" briefly:

    Your best sharpening choice will depend on what you are doing. Whatever system you put together, you will want a coarse(er) and a fine(er) stone (some have a progression of half a dozen, but I think most people would say you need at least two). I use a 1000 grit waterstone followed by an 8000, followed by a strop. I have become a big believer in the strop with green compound. It is cheap and effective. You should keep in mind that oilstones are less effective with modern steels I believe (A2, PMV-11). Waterstones will sharpen them, as well as 01 and vintage carbon steel, but are messier. Sandpaper works, but is expensive.

    George Wilson swears by a diamond stone I think, followed by ceramic stones and a strop. Availability of water, likelihood of your shop freezing, and the type of steel you are trying to sharpen will all influence what is best for you. If I were starting out, I would probably listen to George, but since I already had stones before reading his thoughts, I'll stick with what I have until they wear out.

    As far as chisels go, lots of people speak highly of the Narex. I did not like the way they felt in my hand, so went with the Ashley Iles, which are more expensive, but which I like very much.

    Lee Valley carries the Narex as well, and may be an option if you want individual chisels, or a set made up of different sizes than what you have linked to.

  5. #5
    The dark handle chisels are mortise chisels, not bench chisels.

    Not sure what is different between the 2 "Professional" sets except appearance -type of wood in handles and the ferrules on one set are either brass or brass plated. Someone will have the answer.

    Edit- Upon a closer look, it appears as if the the higher priced set (bench chisels) has a better profile for getting into tighter areas in dovetails. The image is not that good, but it looks that way.
    Last edited by Ray Bohn; 04-25-2017 at 9:03 PM.

  6. #6
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    David E: "I also believe that whichever chisels and which sharpening method you select will not be the one you end up with over a period of time."

    So true. The Narex chisels are good. Stick your toes in the water, experiment, learn and keep asking questions. A year from now you'll still be asking questions, just on a higher level.
    You're in the right place.


  7. #7
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    Several of the chisel sets on Amazon are metric sizes that are close to inch sizes, but not exact. I'm not sure if some are made to actual inch sizes. The Narex chisels the Lee Valley sells are inch sizes. Generally, for most of the work I do metric sizes would be just fine. Where I've found a problem with not having exact inch sizes is if I've roughed out a mortise by drilling and then want to clean it up to match the drilled size.

    I do like my Narex chisels, bench and the 2 mortise chisels.

  8. #8
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    Hi Kevin and welcome to the cave by the Creek.

    Everyone has a different approach to their chisel acquisitions.

    You mention this is your first set instead of saying you want to acquire a set. This makes me think you see this as a 'starter set.' In which case it would likely be a very good set to have while you go through the learning curve of sharpening and using one of the most versatile tools in anyone's shop, the chisel.

    Lee Valley has the set in inch sizes at comparable prices:

    http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...07&cat=1,41504

    The metric sizes on the amazon chisels do not convert exactly to the inch sizes. The 8,16 & 32mm do convert close enough to go unnoticed. The 20mm is closer to 13/16" than 11/16" as shown. (19mm converts to 3/4")

    The differences between the sets in your links are the ones with the dark handles are mortise chisels. The light handled ones are bench chisels or paring chisels, they are longer than the premium chisels. The premium chisels are good all around chisels, especially if they need to be carried to job sites. They are a little lighter and take a little less room in a tool box.

    As time goes by you will likely find each type will excel at a particular job. If you are of a minimalist persuasion, my suggestion would be to get the bench chisels. They can cut mortises, pare various joinery and be used to make hing gains (hinge mortises).

    My preference is for a mortise chisel for cutting a mortise, but a mortise chisel isn't well suited for paring waste on dovetails.

    The shorter premium set can cut mortises, pare dovetails and a lot of joinery but would come up short when paring a dado across a wide panel.

    My shop is unheated. During the winter if woodworking is to be done, the sharpening is going to be done on oilstones. During the summer my water stones get their share of the sharpening duties.

    My first chisel set was to be acquired one size at a time. One of the local hardware chains carried Sandvik chisels for less than $10 each. The first one seemed to be a nice chisel so a second and then a third was purchased. When it was time to buy the next one, the branding and handle design changed. After that my chisels were pretty much a mixed batch though mostly Buck Bros. and Witherby bought from the auction site, estate sales and where ever rust goes to be sniffed out by rust hunters.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #9
    Chisel sets are usually poor value. It's better to think beforehand what sizes you really need. I like something very narrow, something a little wider, the standard 3/4" and something really wide. So I got myself a "set" of 3 mm, 6mm, 19mm and 32mm. Add one or two in between sizes, just because, and you are set for life (untill you start to accumulate vintage chisels, of course). You never see a set like that advertised. The sales people who think up the standard sets usually have no idea about woodworking.

    Regarding sharpening. Everybody knows that oils stones rule! They just don't acknowledge that, yet.

  10. #10
    I will reiterate something that has already been mentioned about just getting a few to start. The Narex set gets a lot of good feedback as bang-for-buck, but if you are ultimately looking at getting a "premium" set, I wouldn't hesitate to buy two or three from LV/LN etc. and then pick up more if/when you need them. Even though there might be an apparent "deal" on getting a set, you may find that you only use about half of them. I typically use about 4 chisels and have a bunch that collect dust or get used on rare occasions. My normal usage is about 3 sizes of LV/PM-V11 (though I have the set), a nice long Sorby 1/2" paring chisel, and a 1/2" pig sticker that I use when I need serious leverage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Hi Kevin and welcome to the cave by the Creek.

    Everyone has a different approach to their chisel acquisitions.

    You mention this is your first set instead of saying you want to acquire a set. This makes me think you see this as a 'starter set.' In which case it would likely be a very good set to have while you go through the learning curve of sharpening and using one of the most versatile tools in anyone's shop, the chisel.

    Lee Valley has the set in inch sizes at comparable prices:

    http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...07&cat=1,41504

    The metric sizes on the amazon chisels do not convert exactly to the inch sizes. The 8,16 & 32mm do convert close enough to go unnoticed. The 20mm is closer to 13/16" than 11/16" as shown. (19mm converts to 3/4")

    The differences between the sets in your links are the ones with the dark handles are mortise chisels. The light handled ones are bench chisels or paring chisels, they are longer than the premium chisels. The premium chisels are good all around chisels, especially if they need to be carried to job sites. They are a little lighter and take a little less room in a tool box.

    As time goes by you will likely find each type will excel at a particular job. If you are of a minimalist persuasion, my suggestion would be to get the bench chisels. They can cut mortises, pare various joinery and be used to make hing gains (hinge mortises).

    My preference is for a mortise chisel for cutting a mortise, but a mortise chisel isn't well suited for paring waste on dovetails.

    The shorter premium set can cut mortises, pare dovetails and a lot of joinery but would come up short when paring a dado across a wide panel.

    My shop is unheated. During the winter if woodworking is to be done, the sharpening is going to be done on oilstones. During the summer my water stones get their share of the sharpening duties.

    My first chisel set was to be acquired one size at a time. One of the local hardware chains carried Sandvik chisels for less than $10 each. The first one seemed to be a nice chisel so a second and then a third was purchased. When it was time to buy the next one, the branding and handle design changed. After that my chisels were pretty much a mixed batch though mostly Buck Bros. and Witherby bought from the auction site, estate sales and where ever rust goes to be sniffed out by rust hunters.

    jtk
    Thank you very much for the long and detailed responses (to everyone). I've been doing a lot of research for the past few days on this to figure out a good start. It seems that the narex set is a good starter brand but from what I gather, only should be getting 4 chisels or so and no need for a set of 12+.

    I feel that I just need to get my feet wet as someone point out. I'll look into buying from lee valley since they aren't metric sized.


    Narex 6 pc set 6mm (1/4"), 10 (3/8"), 12 (1/2"), 16 (5/8"), 20 (13/16") , 26 (1 1/16") Woodworking Chisels in Wooden Presentation Box 853053 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0165WKKY2..._xckazb5GMPC9K

    This was the set I was talking about with dark handles. Compared to https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GPCG5BA..._kD7.ybCR2R2PV

    If I was going to buy individual chisels which sizes should I get? Also I don't see that LV has the "premium" version of the Narex chisels. From my understanding they are better due to the smaller size. Any other place to buy individual chisels?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bohn View Post
    The dark handle chisels are mortise chisels, not bench chisels.

    Not sure what is different between the 2 "Professional" sets except appearance -type of wood in handles and the ferrules on one set are either brass or brass plated. Someone will have the answer.

    Edit- Upon a closer look, it appears as if the the higher priced set (bench chisels) has a better profile for getting into tighter areas in dovetails. The image is not that good, but it looks that way.
    My Narex 7 piece set has dark handles and are bench chisels not mortise chisels. I got mine from LV http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...07&cat=1,41504

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    My Narex 7 piece set has dark handles and are bench chisels not mortise chisels. I got mine from LV http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...07&cat=1,41504
    Wjat are the differences in yours and these? Narex (Made in Czech Republic) Premium 8 pc set 6 (1/4"), 8 (5/16"), 10 (3/8") 12 (1/2"), 16 (5/8") 20 (11/16") , 26 (1" 1/16"), 32 (1 1/4") mm Chisels w/ Hornbeam Handles https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L726IO2..._AKkazbCPJH80D

  14. #14
    Kevin,

    If you're going Narex, I strongly recommend the premium set. View that here.

    They only difference I know is a lower side bevel height and this is well worth the price diff. It will be very important to you when chopping out tails. My only knock on Narex is edge retention. I would say "fair" at best. Also, be prepared to spend some time flattening the backs.

    For stones, that's like what truck to buy. I use diamond stones in the coarser grits + water stones. You will need an extra coarse stone for flattening backs (300 grit) then something like 600. For waterstones a good combo is 1200, 4000, 8000. Norton sells a 4K/8K combo stone that is a good value.

    I would NOT use the coarse diamond stone to flatten water stones. I think it wears it out prematurely. To flatten I use a flattening stone (which, BTW I had to flatten before use!!)

    Hope this helps.

  15. #15
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    I have no experience with the Narex brand, so no information for you on the difference between regular and premium chisels. I would be tempted to say just try a few of the regular ones from Lee Valley if you are looking for non-metric. It looks like the amazon ones are metric and include, perhaps, a few more than needed. Not sure what type of projects you will be working on, but using lots of 3/4" and thinner material for furniture, cabinetry, drawers, etc I would generally use these sizes most (in order): 1/4" (3/4" thick material works well with 1/4" mortises and 1/4" grooves are another common size task) - 1/2" (general paring work such as on blind dovetails or other flushing activity, chopping dovetails to the base line) - a wider chisel for general work could be 3/4" (to match any 3/4" wide dados or rabbets) or even 1" if you want something wide. Remember, a wider chisel is harder to push and control when cutting. - 3/8" (if you work thicker than 3/4" material and use mortise and tenon joinery) - 1/8" for cleaning out tight corners in dovetails, etc. Those sizes are what works for me, others may use different sizes, but I would say those sizes are fairly commonly used by many. I again say to think about the chisels before jumping into multi chisel sets because a perfectly good chisel touted by many others just may not "feel" right in your hand and lots of folks just don't use all of the in between sizes any where near as much as they thought they would before actually acquiring some experience. Large, multi-chisel sets also encourage the new user to just put a dull chisel down and grab another rather than sharpening the dull one. New users sometimes avoid stopping to sharpen and that technique will hold you back along the path toward improvement. As to stones, I use the Sigma set sold by Stu at Tools From Japan and have as much money tied up in them as some good chisels. Other folks use other type stones and have good results.
    David

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