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Thread: Grizzly G 0507 20” bandsaw

  1. #16
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    An excellent post, Jim. Your solution makes perfect sense. Rather than buying individual O-rings you can buy O-ring stock, cut it to the length needed, and glue it together using SuperGlue, just as you described. They sell kits to do this, and we made them many times where I used to work. If it works for O-rings it should work for BS tires.

    John

  2. #17
    Hello Jim,


    Its been approximately ten hours now since I completed the glue-up (see pics).Just took the tire outside from the shop to allow the SUN to help cure it. To my surprise it appears to be holding quite well. I will as you have suggested, allow it to cure until Wednesday late or midday Thursday before attempting to mount the tire on the steel wheel or put any strain or pressure on it until then.
    My next concern is how to go about mounting it on the steel wheel. This rubber tire is thick and heavy and does NOT seem to have much “give” to it. The approaches that come to mind right now are; Soapy water solution on the steel wheel before stretching and putting the tire on, Use Renaissance wax polish approximately a quarter of an inch around the steel wheel edge before installing, Submerse the tire in approximately 120 to 130 degree temperature water and tap around the steel wheel with a soft rubber hammer, Bake the tire in the SUN until it is hot enough to just about able to handle it before installing, And or a combination of any of these. What would your approach be to this?


    Boyd
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    Every man’s work is always a portrait of himself.

  3. #18
    Presuming you have seen this video ...and the other one this guy has also..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbwJD5dh2kY
    The technique is all about stretching the tire in equal parts.
    Interested to see what folks recommend i.e ..start just after the join and wrap the belt around the first few inches so the last
    part to go on the wheel is the joint ???
    Or somewhere in the middle, and doing another wrap job so you can stretch the rest of the tire onto the rim.
    I would use glue to adhere the tire so if it does break it could be patched with some kind of rubber.
    The technique explained to me was ....once the tire is on get a small diameter cylindrical pipe or whatever and roll the pipe under the tire ...
    I don't know, but it would seem to be a good idea if you do a full circumference to even out the stretching, before going around again and applying the glue.
    I have to say, I will be surprised if the joint withstands the stretch the first time.
    Van gave me some tips on this thread ...
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ire-dress-both.
    I'm still trying everything ...lots of adjustments, to get my saw sorted as I have a feeling that a new tire wont fix my problem
    I have nothing to loose as I have a tire for the bottom
    Best of luck Boyd
    Tom

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    An excellent post, Jim. Your solution makes perfect sense. Rather than buying individual O-rings you can buy O-ring stock, cut it to the length needed, and glue it together using SuperGlue, just as you described. They sell kits to do this, and we made them many times where I used to work. If it works for O-rings it should work for BS tires.

    John
    Hi, John<

    I'm curious what the O-rings were for? A former neighbor of mine once worked for a company that made huge valves for industrial plumbing, pipelines etc. He gave me one of the rubber packing rings or gaskets that they would make up for them using cyanoacrylate; looked a bit like a bandsaw tire. I could see the joint in it, but could not pull it apart with my hands no matter how hard I pulled.

    Jim

  5. #20
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    Jan 2015
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    Hello, Boyd:

    Firstly, I would not leave the tire exposed to the hot sun; the sun's rays are very deleterious to most rubber and plastic products. Besides - cyanoacrylate cures by exposure to moisture in the atmosphere. I think if the tire needs to be warmed prior to installation, that a hot water soak would be the safest way - maybe about the temperature of bath water.

    Secondly, do not apply any kind of wax. If it helps slide the rubber tire on to the wheel, it will also make it easy for the tire to come off in use. Also, if you should find later that you need to glue the tire to the wheel rim, any wax residue will certainly keep an adhesive from sticking. Soapy water might work, if you need something to help slide the rubber on to the wheel, but a better alternative would be Johnson's Baby Powder or some other fine talcum. It keeps rubber from "grabbing" - both to itself and to other very smooth surfaces. But again - I would suggest that you don't use anything at all.

    Thirdly, I am concerned that you did not first remove the damaged portion of tire and then make a new joint. If there was indeed some crystallization or other decomposition going on with the rubber at that spot, it may break again. Well if it does, just cut it away and try again.

    As for techniques of actually stretching the tire back on to the wheel: the video that Tom linked to above is as good as any....except your wheels are not spoked. I stretched tires on to the wheels of my 18 inch saw without too much problem, but I first removed the wheels from the machine, which made things a bit easier. You may find you need another pair of hands, but probably not with a wheel that small. It is distinctly easier than removing a bicycle tire was when I was a kid; needed two screwdrivers to pry with for that. The advice to roll a small diameter piece of pipe or hardwood dowel around the circumference between the tire and the rim after it is on is good - do it several times, even if you don't glue the tire in place.

    Be sure and let us know what happens.

    Regards,
    Jim

  6. #21
    Hello Jim,


    After reading your last post, I immediately went down to the shop to perform a very light pull-test on the bandsaw tire. With a very light tug the butt joint came apart. So, I used the small nine inch bandsaw to true up both ends of the butt joints and in the process the other two pieces I had previously glued up SNAPPED off ( that much crystallization surprised me ). So now we have all NEW rubber with squared up fresh new butt ends being cured (see pics). The fresh rubber went together rather well I thought, i’ ll let it sit until Thursday and give it another pull-test.


    Note: This tire is getting shorter and shorter, its going to take a LOT of muscle and stretching to get this bad boy back on the steel wheel.

    I’ll keep you posted.
    .
    Thanks again

    Boyd
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    Last edited by Boyd Gathwright; 05-02-2017 at 12:52 AM.
    Every man’s work is always a portrait of himself.

  7. #22
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    Apr 2005
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    I hate to be that guy but I will; if the rubber is deteriorated enough to break like it did originally the whole tire is almost certainly bad. I predict that you're just going to be chasing your tail on this one until you accept that. Bandsaw tires are a wear item, and not particularly expensive into the grand scheme. Time to bite the bullet and replace them both and move on.

  8. #23
    Heresy I say
    The other tire sounds like it's OK, They look to be nice and fat,
    plus Boyd has the perfectly matching stock to patch it up with, if it doesn't work out.
    Tom

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Trees View Post
    Heresy I say
    The other tire sounds like it's OK, They look to be nice and fat,
    plus Boyd has the perfectly matching stock to patch it up with, if it doesn't work out.
    Tom
    When a $25 tire; http://store.woodworkerstoolworks.com/20-tire/ breaks and wipes out a $250 carbide blade it won't seem like heresy. Stuff wears out, sometimes its best to just replace it and move on.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    When a $25 tire; http://store.woodworkerstoolworks.com/20-tire/ breaks and wipes out a $250 carbide blade it won't seem like heresy. Stuff wears out, sometimes its best to just replace it and move on.

    Fair enough John
    If you've got the funds for a woodmaster CT or other similarly expensive blade, you can spring for new tires
    I am just going on a shoelace...
    good point though
    Tom

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    I hate to be that guy but I will; if the rubber is deteriorated enough to break like it did originally the whole tire is almost certainly bad. I predict that you're just going to be chasing your tail on this one until you accept that. Bandsaw tires are a wear item, and not particularly expensive into the grand scheme. Time to bite the bullet and replace them both and move on.

    Uh yeah. but somehow I just don't think I believe that one.

    Yes, the whole tire could very well be bad, but since it appeared to have broken right at the joint, several of us were betting on the possibility that something used to make the joint had caused the failure and that the rest of it might still be good.

    But you're probably right - best just to accept that the tire is an inexpensive wear item - even at $25 or more each - and replace it (even though the tires on my two saws are over 30 years old.) And, of course, there is always the possibility that it could fail again at any time after a successful repair and ruin an expensive carbide-tipped blade - just as it could have done with the original failure (but did not) and could do with a replacement. Come to think of it, something else on the saw could break at any time and ruin an expensive blade, so instead it would probably be best to just accept that imported Asian made machinery is inexpensive consumable Chinese junk, set it out at the curb, buy another saw, and "move on."

    Jim
    Last edited by Jim Wheeler; 05-02-2017 at 12:51 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    When a $25 tire; http://store.woodworkerstoolworks.com/20-tire/ breaks and wipes out a $250 carbide blade it won't seem like heresy. Stuff wears out, sometimes its best to just replace it and move on.

    You may or may not have noticed that Boyd's saw tires have a raised center ridge and are made to fit a grooved rim - similar to a Delta "Jiffy" tire. Replacements for such tires at the source you linked are more on the order of $85 each - not $25.

    Sometimes it's best to try what one can do before moving on.

    Jim

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wheeler View Post
    Uh yeah. but somehow I just don't think I believe that one.

    Yes, the whole tire could very well be bad, but since it appeared to have broken right at the joint, several of us were betting on the possibility that something used to make the joint had caused the failure and that the rest of it might still be good.

    But you're probably right - best just to accept that the tire is an inexpensive wear item - even at $25 or more each - and replace it (even though the tires on my two saws are over 30 years old.) And, of course, there is always the possibility that it could fail again at any time after a successful repair and ruin an expensive carbide-tipped blade - just as it could have done with the original failure (but did not) and could do with a replacement. Come to think of it, something else on the saw could break at any time and ruin an expensive blade, so instead it would probably be best to just accept that imported Asian made machinery is inexpensive consumable Chinese junk, set it out at the curb, buy another saw, and "move on."

    Jim
    Did you not notice the two other pieces that broke off about an inch from the seam? More than just joint failure there. I did notice the rib, but there is no reason that a flat tire couldn't be glued in place if cost is a concern.

  14. #29
    I dare reply to this thread again as I don't want to put a curse on myself but for the greater good of creeker's everywhere, I shall ask...
    I was worrying about the issues I possibly faced about epoxying the tire I have, with the flaws.,
    But the same question can relate to this query.
    Will there be any hardening of the glue on the joint ?
    I was thinking if I run into trouble, I might just use regular household glue and find some suitable rubber and try patching these flaws instead of filling them with epoxy.
    Tom

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    Did you not notice the two other pieces that broke off about an inch from the seam? More than just joint failure there. I did notice the rib, but there is no reason that a flat tire couldn't be glued in place if cost is a concern.
    Yes, I did notice them - which is why I suggested he cut a new joint and remove the damaged portion, even though it would make the tire a bit shorter. And yes, there is something more than simple joint failure there: as I wrote before, we were betting that some substance used to make the joint had crystallized that portion of the tire. Now it could very well be that all the rubber in the tire has gone bad from some cause or another; that will be quite evident if the tire will no longer stretch enough to go back on the wheel. Being one inch shorter than it was should make no difference if it is actual rubber or neoprene.

    Sure, one could glue an inexpensive flat tire on to the wheel, but the groove in the rim would have to be filled first for good performance. One could use all sorts of things for a tire: leather belting, cork, inner tube, electricians' old fashioned rubber insulating tape, masking tape, duct tape, a length of split rubber hose. Some have even used built-up layers of silicone caulk. All have been tried at one time or another by someone and with varying degrees of success.

    Jim

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