Veritas dovetail saw cuts "slow"

[Mark Udit]

Hey guys, first real post, long time lurker. Thanks for all the good advice I've read so far!

Quick question. I have a Veritas 14TPI dovetail saw. I've had it for a bit over a year, only factory sharpened. I noticed that, regardless of technique, it takes many strokes to cut down to my baseline. I'm qualifying it as slow based on anecdotal evidence of watching guys on youtube, and the quickness in which they can cut. It seemingly takes me 20 strokes to accomplish what they can do in 3-5.

Is this a characteristic of the saw or my technique? Should I sharpen it?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[lowell holmes]

Hey guys, first real post, long time lurker. Thanks for all the good advice I've read so far!

Quick question. I have a Veritas 14TPI dovetail saw. I've had it for a bit over a year, only factory sharpened. I noticed that, regardless of technique, it takes many strokes to cut down to my baseline. I'm qualifying it as slow based on anecdotal evidence of watching guys on youtube, and the quickness in which they can cut. It seemingly takes me 20 strokes to accomplish what they can do in 3-5.

Is this a characteristic of the saw or my technique? Should I sharpen it?

I would contact L

Thanks in advance for any help.

If your saw is the one with teeth on both sides, mine is a slow cutting saw. You need a Wenzloff saw or a Lie Nielsen saw.

I have the Lie Nielsen saw. I've had it for 15 years, and it has been worth every penny I paid for it.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Mark and welcome to the Creek.

What wood and what sizes are you using?

If you live in my area I would be happy to get together and figure out if is the saw or your technique needing work.

Is this the saw you have:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...884,68511&ap=1

A few good photos of the saw might make it possible to see if anything obvious is wrong with the saw. I do not know the manner in which Veritas saws are made but it is possible the saw plate was installed incorrectly. Such a saw might cut better on the pull than as is normal on the push.

How does your saw work crosscutting? It may have the teeth filed with a crosscut profile that doesn't work very well for rip cutting such as in dovetail work.

If you haven't successfully sharpened at least a few saws then you might want to contact Lee Valley and see if they can help.

jtk

[glenn bradley]

Howdy Mark and welcome to the Creek.

What wood and what sizes are you using?

If you live in my area I would be happy to get together and figure out if is the saw or your technique needing work.

I wish I lived near Jim. that would be a valuable and enjoyable visit . The 14TPI is sharpened as what Lee Valley calls a rip-cut. What constitutes a good rip geometry gets some good conversations started. There are a good group of folks here who have that sort of thing well studied and experienced (I'm not one of them). I agree some snapshots would help determine the state of the saw.

[Jim Koepke]

I wish I lived near Jim. that would be a valuable and enjoyable visit .

Thanks for the kind words Glenn. Actually one of my new friends has had trouble becoming a member on SMC due to his name being the same as a lot of other members, plus he doesn't have a computer, only a smart phone. Since he lives across the river he contacted me by phone and we have gotten together a few times since. He was having problems with using a few planes that we were able to get sorted.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Hey guys, first real post, long time lurker. Thanks for all the good advice I've read so far!

Quick question. I have a Veritas 14TPI dovetail saw. I've had it for a bit over a year, only factory sharpened. I noticed that, regardless of technique, it takes many strokes to cut down to my baseline. I'm qualifying it as slow based on anecdotal evidence of watching guys on youtube, and the quickness in which they can cut. It seemingly takes me 20 strokes to accomplish what they can do in 3-5.

Is this a characteristic of the saw or my technique? Should I sharpen it?

Thanks in advance for any help.

If it takes you 20 strokes to reach the baseline, then I wonder how much of the tooth line you are using? The full length? 2"?

How long have you been using the saw (assuming also that you purchased it new)?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Mark,

I have the 14 TPI dovetail saw. From eyeballing it it has a around 80 degrees of rake which isn't as aggressive as 90 degrees but it shouldn't be slow cutting. I've found the LV saws to have a little too much 'set' but that shouldn't slow as much as you have posted. Two things: eyeball your tooth line, it should be just a little less than vertical and slide your fingers along the tooth line toe to heal it should 'grab' your skin. If it doesn't the saw is dull and I'd sent it back or better sharpen it yourself.

BTW, the LV saws are as good as any, I would pay no attention to anyone that suggests you need a different brand saw, they know nothing of what they speak, all you are buying is 'bing'. One more point, the folks doing videos are using very easy to work wood, with some woods two or three strokes is all that is needed to get to the base line, others not so fast.

ken

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

I second Derek's question re length of stroke. This may not be the case here of course, but in every DT class I've taught, my most frequent refrain is, "You paid for the whole saw, so use the whole saw." New users tend to use only the middle 4"-5" of the plate instead of taking full strokes.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I'm stealing Megan's saying- "You paid for the whole saw, so use the whole saw"- I like that!!!

Welcome, Mark, and thanks for posting. Something is certainly not right if it takes you 20 strokes. You say that the saw is only factory sharpened. Do you mean it has never been sharpened since you bought it from the factory, or do you mean that you only send it back to the factory to be sharpened? If you have not sharpened it in a year plus- there's your problem, assuming you have used it a few times in that year.

A 14 TPI saw isn't going to go extremely fast, but certainly much faster than 20 strokes to do a dovetail or small tenon. You already got some good advice on tooth geometry. I suggest getting a file, checking out Paul Sellers' excellent video on sharpening saws (it's on YouTube) and give it a try. A rip saw is the easiest and best to learn on because there is only rake and no fleem- just one angle to screw up... er... I mean to get right. :-) Well, you could add slope- but don't go there. Not yet.

Best of luck.

[Simon MacGowen]

Mark,
BTW, the LV saws are as good as any, I would pay no attention to anyone that suggests you need a different brand saw, they know nothing of what they speak, all you are buying is 'bing'.
ken

The most impartial quote on buying saws.

As someone who has used most premium/luxury saws ($250 - $350 a pc) as well as the three Veritas dovetail saws since Day 1 they were released, I can echo the above statement and it's your technique (experience) that will make the difference. I don't blame those who love their brand name saws and try to pitch someone else to fall in line, brand loyalty is natural.

Without pictures, it is hard to say what may be wrong.

Simon

[Mike Brady]

As regards pictures of the saw teeth, they would have to be pretty good photos to tell what is wrong with this saw, and useless for evaluating the set of the teeth. I recommend you have the saw sharpened and set properly. Some of the LV saws I have used were hard to start in the cut and rather notchy feeling. If I had one dovetail saw, it would be dull well before a year of use. Saws are simple: spring steel and good sharpening. Everything else is bling, so a dull $250. saw is 100% pure bling. The saw in question will work great if it is sharpened.

Some of the posters here can post some saw services. I do my own. I'm not sure what the forum rules are re: recommending vendors.

[Bill McNiel]

The most impartial quote on buying saws.

As someone who has used most premium/luxury saws ($250 - $350 a pc) as well as the three Veritas dovetail saws since Day 1 they were released, I can echo the above statement and it's your technique (experience) that will make the difference. I don't blame those who love their brand name saws and try to pitch someone else to fall in line, brand loyalty is natural.

Without pictures, it is hard to say what may be wrong.

Simon

J'accord! The Veritas is a solid saw.

[lowell holmes]

Google "Dove Tail Saw Technique".

There will several videos that may be of help to you.

[Ron Bontz]

I second Derek's question re length of stroke. This may not be the case here of course, but in every DT class I've taught, my most frequent refrain is, "You paid for the whole saw, so use the whole saw." New users tend to use only the middle 4"-5" of the plate instead of taking full strokes.

+1 on stroke length and even relaxed pressure. Best wishes.

[Adam Cruea]

Make that a +2.

I had the super-fine LV DT saw. While not as glamorous as the Bad-Axe saws I have, and maybe not quite as dead-aim accurate, it was a hungry little thing that chewed up wood quickly.