Veritas dovetail saw cuts "slow"

[Mark Udit]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for all the suggestions. Maybe saying 20 was a bit of an exaggeration, but it definitely seems like a lot.

After reading your your comments though I realized what some of you said might be right.

I paid lose attention to what I was doing today and realized that I'm focusing so much on following my layout and keeping straight and I'm taking less than full stokes with the saw.

Thanks again for the great advice.

[John Crawford]

I have noticed that many of the youtube "speed dovetails" videos involve the instructor cutting very thin softwood (perhaps illustrating a drawer side), but resulting in their cuts only taking a few strokes of the saw. A real-life non-speed cut in harder woods might take more strokes, but I'll bet you'll be able to get it down from 20.

[Warren Weckesser]

Check out Paul Sellers cutting dovetails in oak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYjoj6cfno

He starts cutting the tails at about 4:30. He definitely uses more than five strokes to cut those tails.

[Pete Taran]

Mark, do you have a iphone that can take a close up? The new iphone 7 can take very closeup pictures of saw teeth. If so, try it from the side and post it here so we can see it. Below is an example of my every day DT saw (and old IT of course) that I took with about 6X zoom. Those are 16 ppi teeth.

dtteeth.jpg

[Mike Brady]

Pete, with all due respect, what knowledge can be gained from your photo? the rake angle? It looks sharp-ish? Set?...not from that viewing angle. I'm guessing the OP's saw would look pretty similar in a photo. You've sharpened hundreds of saws, and perhaps you can perceive what is needed. I've done my share of saw sharpening, but I would have to be able to at least touch one, if not use it, to have a clue as to it's condition. In my opinion, the OP needs to try a someone's saw that truly is sharp, and then determine if faulty technique is the core problem.

I find that when my dovetail saws are needing a sharpening, the cut speed decreases but the tracking stays pretty true. As far as starting the cut goes, a freshly sharpened saw can be pretty grabby until the burrs are gone. I don't recall if he said the saw was a year old or if he had used it for a year. There's a difference.

[Jim Koepke]

Pete, with all due respect, what knowledge can be gained from your photo?

It can not be determined from the picture, but if the toe is to the left, that saw will cut slow because the plate is backwards. It can be seen the teeth actually have points on them instead of flats. We can also see the saw is filed for rip cutting and not crosscutting. Finally the teeth look to be all the same height instead of willy nilly variations from poor filing.

jtk

[Pete Taran]

What I'm looking for is was it filed with a file that put a flat at the bottom of the gullet which makes the gullet less able to carry out the saw dust than one that is deeper? The shape of the teeth matter too. If the rake is relaxed to 15 degrees, that will cut much more slowly than one that is more aggressive like the picture. These are important things that can be discerned quickly from looking at a photo like the one I posted. I thought I might actually offer help to the OP, instead of endlessly speculating about what might be wrong. I'm sorry if this winds down the speculation, as fun as it might be.

[lowell holmes]

It can not be determined from the picture, but if the toe is to the left, that saw will cut slow because the plate is backwards. It can be seen the teeth actually have points on them instead of flats. We can also see the saw is filed for rip cutting and not crosscutting. Finally the teeth look to be all the same height instead of willy nilly variations from poor filing.

jtk

My dovetails saws are filed for rip. I have a rip tenon saw and a crosscut tenon saw.

Paul Sellers saws were all sharpened rip when I took classes from him at Homestead Heritage.

[Richard Line]

I've got that LV saw. Been using it for several years. It can cut fast enough to not be a problem. As the saw comes from LV, it has a 15 deg. rake angle. That is a more relaxed rake than many other saws, and particularly those used by the experts. The 15 deg. rake allows the saw to start easier than a steeper rake, and that is good for beginners, which I certainly was when I got my LV saw. After using it for a while (and after learning something about sharpening saws on a trash saw) I sharpened it and regained some speed. Later, with more practice/use, I changed the rake angle to 9 or 10 deg.s that sped it up some more, but it was harder to start – more learning. I've seen recommendations for 5 deg. rake angles; I'm not there.

With my saw, I've never had an issue nor concern about the amount of set, its fairly low as it comes from LV.

[Jim Koepke]

I've got that LV saw. Been using it for several years. It can cut fast enough to not be a problem. As the saw comes from LV, it has a 15 deg. rake angle. That is a more relaxed rake than many other saws, and particularly those used by the experts. The 15 deg. rake allows the saw to start easier than a steeper rake, and that is good for beginners, which I certainly was when I got my LV saw. After using it for a while (and after learning something about sharpening saws on a trash saw) I sharpened it and regained some speed. Later, with more practice/use, I changed the rake angle to 9 or 10 deg.s that sped it up some more, but it was harder to start – more learning. I've seen recommendations for 5 deg. rake angles; I'm not there.

With my saw, I've never had an issue nor concern about the amount of set, its fairly low as it comes from LV.

Good explanation of how rake angle affects the speed of cut. One of my saws is at 5º rake. It cuts fast but leaves a bit rougher finish than saws with 8 or 9º of rake.

jtk