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Thread: What good are biscuits?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    North -Eastern Ontario, Canada
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    271
    Ive had this discussion many times. And some are open to understanding and others are not. It is all good - we all use what we think is the best method(s) for the job at hand.

    In our shop we use dowels, Lamello biscuits and Festool Dominos. All three fairly regularly. But for many different applications.

    Dowels are the cheapest and fastest for case goods, since we use a stationary boring machine. Donimos are very handy for more structural type joinery, or to get into a tighter area, deeper.

    Biscuits are still so very useful - and cheap. By the box of 1000, our cost is approx 5 cents/unit. And the machine makes the slot accurately and very quickly (I wouldnt even consider using a router..).

    Dominos on the other hand are about 26 cents for a 8x40 or 8x50 per unit. The machine is not as fast either. So when a biscuit will do, why use the Domino?

    I still like dowels if we can get what we need on the machine. But again, everything has its best use.

    After 30+ years using them, I can't see getting rid of the Lamello machines any time soon.
    Andrew J. Coholic

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    New England, in a town on the way to nowhere
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    537
    +1 on bisquits being very useful and far stronger than the detractors say. If your bisquits are pulling out, you didn't put them in correctly. I Mitre, Spline, and Glue (MSG) a lot of door and window casings ahead of time and if one gets broken, the entire joint is usually destroyed because the wood around the joint is broken and stuck to the bisquit.
    I don't use them for making passage doors or cabinet doors- I have a shaper, mortiser, tennoning heads etc.. But I do use them to align panel glue ups as thin as a 1/2".
    The most important thing in the system is the joiner though, you do need to invest in a good one. I have a Lamello Top 10 I got used and a PC 557; both have served me well.
    Last edited by Mark Wooden; 05-05-2017 at 8:46 AM.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    McKean, PA
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    You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing And the follow up. Joint Test #2
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 05-05-2017 at 12:20 PM.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
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  4. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pottstown PA
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    972
    I bought one back in the day because Norm used it. I found out over time they do not add any strength but are cool for aligninig boards for glue ups for panels. However after gaining some experience doing panels and realizing I did not 10,000psi on clamps to edge glue boards, I don't even need them for alignment anymore. IMO they just take valuable time and not needed.

    But for others they work and thats fine. I sold my PC plate jointer years ago and never regretted it.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Camas, Wa
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    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing

    That's all fine and dandy. We all know that edge grain joints are pretty strong with only glue. What about but joints, corner joints, miters, or anything plywood? I also saw a woodworking magazine test that said they were as strong or stronger than a Domino. Do that same test with a domino and you would arrive at the same conclusion, Dominoes add no strength. Festool owners heads around the world would explode. Ha!Ha!

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
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    7,551
    Right tool for the job, that's about all that needs to be said. I suspect biscuits have been used inappropriately, didn't work well and were therefore pronounced as no good at all for anything. Whatever works.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing
    I don't think the guy in that video understands the principle of leverage very well, or at least he doesn't recognize how it influenced what he is trying to study. He fastened his cable to the top of each board upright in the vise and no surprise, each broke at vise jaws at the other end, where the maximum point of leverage was occurring, joint or no joint. I would say he did a good job confirming that leverage exists just like the Egyptians did.

    For anyone interested in joint strength tests, I think Mattias Wandel's tests are very good.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Camas, Wa
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    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    I would say he did a good job confirming........
    Nothing!!!!. "It doesn"t prove anything, but what it does prove..." Say what? Some people should not post videos on the net.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing And the follow up. Joint Test #2
    These links represent the value of the interweb to a tee. If you don't know more than the person posting the link you are in trouble. Anyone who says that biscuits don't add strength to a joint really shouldn't be giving advice OR should specify the type of joint that they are talking about. Honestly go dig up a 20 year old FWW article about different types of joinery strength. JOINERY.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    New England
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    2,474
    I got a kick out of this guy when he said 'I don't know anyone who coats the biscuits with glue '.

    Are you kidding me? The biscuit is DESIGNED to swell into the kerf AFTER you coat it in glue! Gluing only the slot is not the same. For any product to work it has to be used correctly.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602

    my opinion

    Add me to the list of those endorsing the use of a biscuit joiner..I've had a Porter Cable 557 for 6-7 years and overall, like the results.....I do not use it to add strength to a joint....But for alignment it is very helpful and simplifies much of my gluing process...The final joint can be easily planed or sanded later to your desired look....Sorry, I like them and wouldn't be without one for my clumsy fingers when gluing..
    Jerry

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Fournier View Post
    Anyone who says that biscuits don't add strength to a joint really shouldn't be giving advice OR should specify the type of joint that they are talking about.
    I couldn't agree more with this statement. I simply cannot understand the widespread misconception that the primary (only) application for biscuits is edge to edge joints to aid alignment. While it CAN be used in that application, it is not where it is primarily intended or where the system excels. Think about biscuits where you would traditionally use a spline, because a biscuit is a spline. Corner joints, T joints, reinforcing miter and case miter joints. It also excels when used with composite materials like ply, MDF, PB that present their own challenges. Here is a 3 minute video from Lamello demonstrating one of their biscuit joiners, and note the one joint they don't demonstrate is an edge (panel) joint. The grooving method they show at 2:15 is a very novel one for installing glued in partitions after the main carcase glue-up by sliding them in where the mating slots have already been cut. I built a set of cubbyhole organizers for an office once using this technique. It was much faster than cutting dadoes and everything lined up perfectly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU1w52XR5T0

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the biscuit joiner is the swiss army knife of woodworking that does it all. It has its applications and its limitations. But at the same time, calling it totally worthless is a disservice to a newcomer who is looking for advice.
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 05-06-2017 at 12:14 PM.

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