Hammer saw owners: Questions on the optional Hammer power feeder

[John Lankers]

This is exactly the way I do it, it is safer, more ergonomically convenient and more precise.
Edit: In reference to what Chris Parks describes in post #9

[Jim Becker]

For folks not familiar with a slider, yes, rips using the wagon (slider) are pretty pristine when the material is immovable on the wagon through the cut, clamped or held securely. It's noticeably cleaner than manually running a board along a fence. And using a parallel ripping setup, commercial or shop-made, deals with the second edge very nicely.

That said, I believe the OP's question is more pointed toward dealing with narrow repetitive rips, such as rail/style material, which are a little harder to do with just the slider action because there's little width there to provide for clamping or safely holding the material by hand. So using a power feeder properly setup "should" both keep the material stable through the cut while running along the fence in a way that one cannot do by hand and also eliminate the hand from coming close to the blade.

[Ryan Mooney]

I will echo Ryan's comments - the slider wagon is slightly higher than the right side (fixed) table (on purpose), but this means that if you're ripping a narrow piece, it might be at a small angle (relative to the rip fence), and you won't get a square cut.

That nicely summarizes it. The slider on mine is noticeably higher than the cast iron top. I've never measured because unless I'm planning to fix it.. its just noodling.. but its enough higher that if you rip a board between the fence and the saw there is a noticeable bevel. You can get around that by ripping a smidge wide and then re-ripping a thin strip off the outside.. but its not super practical in practice because for most purposes there are better methods (or at least better given the limitations of the setup). If it was only 2-3 thou higher I don't think I'd have been bothered by it but again haven't mustered up the courage to try to drop it down to that

I believe the Felder X-Roll platform is _usually_ tuned a bit tighter but I've heard of numerous people adjusting that system down a bit as well.

At this point I pretty much never use the rip fence, and have been considering adjusting it to have zero toe out so its more accurately useful as a slid back bump stop (the usual toe out introduces a bit of parallax). If I did that either cutting down the fence or ordering the short version might be useful to keep it out of the road when pulled back behind the blade.

On the power feeder, if you're really indenting to use it with the saw.. If you get the F48 you can separately buy the longer support arm. At least on the larger K3 and B3 saws they will handle the F48, the smaller ones might not like the weight as much and could be a smidge tippy. Its also a fair bit heavier to rotate up and over (the K3/B3 doesn't have a support bracket available with the gas assist - although you could probably rig one).

You will most definitely find the straight line rip on the slider to be VASTLY superior to the straight line setup you have on your current table saw. It really is a pleasure to use, especially for larger pieces.

Chris P, thanks for finding the video showing the 3000mm T-track but I couldn't find it when I looked..

[James Zhu]

That nicely summarizes it. The slider on mine is noticeably higher than the cast iron top. I've never measured because unless I'm planning to fix it.. its just noodling.. but its enough higher that if you rip a board between the fence and the saw there is a noticeable bevel. You can get around that by ripping a smidge wide and then re-ripping a thin strip off the outside.. but its not super practical in practice because for most purposes there are better methods (or at least better given the limitations of the setup). If it was only 2-3 thou higher I don't think I'd have been bothered by it but again haven't mustered up the courage to try to drop it down to that

I believe the Felder X-Roll platform is _usually_ tuned a bit tighter but I've heard of numerous people adjusting that system down a bit as well.

At this point I pretty much never use the rip fence, and have been considering adjusting it to have zero toe out so its more accurately useful as a slid back bump stop (the usual toe out introduces a bit of parallax). If I did that either cutting down the fence or ordering the short version might be useful to keep it out of the road when pulled back behind the blade.

On the power feeder, if you're really indenting to use it with the saw.. If you get the F48 you can separately buy the longer support arm. At least on the larger K3 and B3 saws they will handle the F48, the smaller ones might not like the weight as much and could be a smidge tippy. Its also a fair bit heavier to rotate up and over (the K3/B3 doesn't have a support bracket available with the gas assist - although you could probably rig one).

You will most definitely find the straight line rip on the slider to be VASTLY superior to the straight line setup you have on your current table saw. It really is a pleasure to use, especially for larger pieces.

Chris P, thanks for finding the video showing the 3000mm T-track but I couldn't find it when I looked..

Felder's standard in terms of sliding table height in relation to cast iron table is 0.012", but many people found that the actual height is higher than 0.012". It was almost 0.020" on my KF700sp, I spent 22 hours to get it down to about 0.006" / 0.007", it was not fun, and I do not want to do it again. I can do rip cut against rip fence like you do rip on cabinet saw, and i would say it is pretty square.

Regarding F-48, I do not recommend it, I have one, too heavy, not easy to adjust. I would recommend to buy Co-Matic power feeder. Many Felder machine owners replaced F48 with Co-Matic power feeder.

http://www.co-matic.com/
http://www.shopgearinc.com/products/...able-speed.php

James

[Ryan Mooney]

Felder's standard in terms of sliding table height in relation to cast iron table is 0.012", but many people found that the actual height is higher than 0.012". It was almost 0.020" on my KF700sp, I spent 22 hours to get it down to about 0.006" / 0.007", it was not fun, and I do not want to do it again. I can do rip cut against rip fence like you do rip on cabinet saw, and i would say it is pretty square.

Regarding F-48, I do not recommend it, I have one, too heavy, not easy to adjust. I would recommend to buy Co-Matic power feeder. Many Felder machine owners replaced F48 with Co-Matic power feeder.

http://www.co-matic.com/
http://www.shopgearinc.com/products/...able-speed.php

James

Where were you BEFORE I bought the F48... Yeah the F48 is beastly heavy... I don't use it nearly as much as it would be nice to sometimes because of that. I would second that the adjustments are.. complex... but didn't have a lot to compare either. The point was more that the shorter/stock arm on the Felder feeders don't reach the saw very well, measure and do the math. The stock arm was easier to lift because there was less metal in the way, but less flexible as well.

I'm pretty sure the Hammer has a lower tolerance than the K700's, I'd bet mine is at least 0.020 or even higher (y'all are going to make me measure it aren't you... maybe tomorrow in the daylight).

[Andy Giddings]

Where were you BEFORE I bought the F48... Yeah the F48 is beastly heavy... I don't use it nearly as much as it would be nice to sometimes because of that. I would second that the adjustments are.. complex... but didn't have a lot to compare either. The point was more that the shorter/stock arm on the Felder feeders don't reach the saw very well, measure and do the math. The stock arm was easier to lift because there was less metal in the way, but less flexible as well.

I'm pretty sure the Hammer has a lower tolerance than the K700's, I'd bet mine is at least 0.020 or even higher (y'all are going to make me measure it aren't you... maybe tomorrow in the daylight).

If it ain't broke Ryan - I've never bothered measuring my C3. As long as you are happy with the results, who cares whether its 0.030 or 0.003? Last time I checked its wood we're working with, not metal :-)

[Rick Fisher]

Rick, the sliding table is definitely higher than the cast iron table, otherwise, when you cut using sliding table, the cast iron table would drag the stock.

If the cast iron table top is flat within 0.001", it is possible to adjust the sliding table, so it is only 0.002" or 0.003" higher than the cast iron table. I would call that PERFECT.

I know you have a Martin slider, I am just curious about its sliding table height in relation to the cast iron table.

James

Hey James.. Yeah I took a look and your right, it is higher.. I don't have my dial indicator ( cant find it ).. When I do I will measure it .. I learned something ..

[David Kumm]

I have set all my sliders at .002-.004 above the table at the blade. If power feeding a larger number of pieces, I'd also clamp a block behind the fence to give it more strength. The extrusion isn't that heavy. The saws that were designed for power feeding usually had fences that clamped on a back rail so some extra support is a good thing. Dave

[James Zhu]

Hey James.. Yeah I took a look and your right, it is higher.. I don't have my dial indicator ( cant find it ).. When I do I will measure it .. I learned something ..

Rick, I expect Martin has a very higher standard, cause I never ever heard any Martin slider owner adjusted the sliding table height.

I learned how to adjust sliding table height from David P. Best who is the author of "The Unofficial Survival Guide" for Felder sliding table saw and shaper.

[James Zhu]

Ryan,

Since you have a slider, you should join Felder Owner Group on yahoo.com. There are lots of experts on the FOG, great folks, they will answer all your questions and provide guidance. I enjoy reading the threads and always learn new things.

I knew CoMatic power feeder when I bought the F48 with my KF700sp, I got a really good deal on it. CoMatic would be twice the price since I am in Canada. If I had a separate shaper (I have no more space in my double car garage), I would definitely cry once and buy the CoMatic power feeder.

[Ryan Mooney]

Ryan,

Since you have a slider, you should join Felder Owner Group on yahoo.com. There are lots of experts on the FOG, great folks, they will answer all your questions and provide guidance. I enjoy reading the threads and always learn new things.

I knew CoMatic power feeder when I bought the F48 with my KF700sp, I got a really good deal on it. CoMatic would be twice the price since I am in Canada. If I had a separate shaper (I have no more space in my double car garage), I would definitely cry once and buy the CoMatic power feeder.

I've been a lurker on the FOG for ~6 years. It is indeed a fantastic resource and not just for Felder bits.

I bought the F48 when felder had a sale that put it ~20% less than the Comatic which was somewhat compelling (I had been really wanted one for the shaper - I have B3, the shaper still freaks me out).

[Dan Friedrichs]

Just out of curiosity, I got out the straight edge and feeler gauges - the slider is 0.005" higher on my Hammer C3-31. Much better than I expected.

[Rick Fisher]

Martin ranges from .003 to .007 ... Using a Betterly unaguage ..

[David Davies]

John, Where did you get the extrusions and flip stops for your Fritz and Frans?
Dave

[John Lankers]

I do the same as John - use an F & F jig for anything that the cross cut fence won't handle (great looking jig by the way, John!). I do have a power feeder but have not used it on the saw.

Thanks Andy, this is the one jig I don't want to miss in the shop, ever.