Jointer Plane

[Pete Taran]

I don't disagree with anything that has been written, except Warren's notion that the Zenith of wooden planes didn't occur in the 1870s.

I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. Were there a lot of large, expensive cast iron machinery that planed and sawed logs into usable lumber? Yes indeed. I may be wrong, but the point of Stewart's exercise is to make a BENCH jointer. Unless an individual furniture or cabinet maker was fortunate enough to have said large, expensive water or steam powered cast iron machine in his shop, he used a wooden jointer just like the one Stewart is building. Wooden bench planes didn't loose popularity for many years, until Stanley had sufficiently convinced the public that their iron planes were superior. That process started in the late 1860s. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the vast historical record.

Stewart, how is that plane coming. Any update?

[Jim Koepke]

I think the handplane was still as relevant as ever, way into the 20th century. Exponential rise of the population ment an increasingdemand for wooden structures. One building boom after the other. And the small electric motor was still far away.

Most people were farmers by the late 19th. C.. At least those living WAYYYYYYY out in the newly opened country. They needed some simple tools to build their houses,barns,and probably some simple furniture.

The other important factor to consider is until Edison came along with the incandescent lamp, there wasn't any electrical service. Even after the development of electric lighting many areas didn't have electricity or other power systems to run 'modern' equipment.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

I don't think that a picture of a big Victorean planer is proof that nobody handplaned from rough to smooth anymore. I don't know how widespread the use of these machines was. I have read stories from London furniture shops from the early 20th century describing still a mostly handtool oriented approach, with at best a single sawing machine in the basement.

[Warren Mickley]

At least here in America, furniture in the late 19th century was almost all made in factories. When we actually look at stuff that survives from that time, it is machine work. Occasionally we see some crude pine piece with hand tooling, but much of that has factory made mouldings if not machined boards. Victorian? Machine work, machine made decorations, stamped designs, crude hand carving. "Arts and Crafts"? Machine work. Nothing at all like the skilful stuff done a century earlier. Indentured apprenticeships were outlawed; a master could not invest in heavily in training someone who could walk out the door any day and offer his skills to someone else.

[Kees Heiden]

Yes, so the interesting question is, what were all those post 1870 planes used for? And there were a lot of them! Carpentry work is probably by far the largest consumer of these things.

[steven c newman]

And, most of the ones I find have been well worn, from a LOT of use. Not warpped, worn.

After all, Carpenters built the houses, NOT some factory. And, you would like to HAVE a house BEFORE you buy the factory-made furniture.

I have 4 wood boodied planes, most were made and used well after the 1870 "Heyday" times.....Stanley #31? 1892.....Ohio Tool Co. #81? Stanley #28...1899? Ohio Tool co. # 035? Somewhere before 1920...

They weren't sitting on a shelf somewhere all those years, they were being used.

[Graham Haydon]

I wonder just how many planes a house carpenter would need once timber was purchased accurately sawn and things like skirting, architraves and door linings would be machine planed? I can't imagine they'd need long planes very often, perhaps a jack and smoother would be ample for most on site work of the late 19th century. Something to stick a rebate or a groove now and again could be hand. I know that in the early 20th century you could go to merchants and buy ready moulded sash section to be joined as required.

[Kees Heiden]

A long plane to fit doors and windows? There are loads of long, even very long (90cm), wooden planes available on our local "craigslist" overhere in Holland.

[steven c newman]

I live in a very old house....doors are 8' tall, the windows were 5', and taller. Baseboards were tall, wide, thick and long.

Another old house I lived in (1890) had 2" x 5" by 20' roughsawn Oak wall studs ( Balloon Framed) Handsaw to rip the jambs, Jointer planes to even the edges.

Unless one lived in a Hobbit Hole House, you needed them long planes as a Carpenter.

[Pat Barry]

It doesn't take so much of a historian to figure out what was going on in the 1870's. There is loads of documentation. This machine planed three sides square and to dimension.

Attachment 359686
Here is 1816:
Attachment 359687

The 1816 picture looks like Chinese woodworkers. What is the picture supposed to be depicting?

[Pete Taran]

At least here in America, furniture in the late 19th century was almost all made in factories. When we actually look at stuff that survives from that time, it is machine work. Occasionally we see some crude pine piece with hand tooling, but much of that has factory made mouldings if not machined boards. Victorian? Machine work, machine made decorations, stamped designs, crude hand carving. "Arts and Crafts"? Machine work. Nothing at all like the skilful stuff done a century earlier. Indentured apprenticeships were outlawed; a master could not invest in heavily in training someone who could walk out the door any day and offer his skills to someone else.

Warren, no one is disputing that planers and jointer came into use in the later parts of the 1870s. Planing and jointing wood saved a ton of time and allowed for the sale of nice furniture the masses could afford. However consider the following:

The use of machines for stock prep did not negate the need for hand planes of all types and sizes. I've been blessed to own and work on some very old vintage iron. Jointers and planers in that time period ran on line shafts or steam engine and had SQUARE cutting heads that had TWO, yes TWO knives. What do you get when you couple a slow moving cutter head with only two knives? A very rippled surface, one that had to be jointed before glue up or smoothed before being finished. As a result, planes were still very much in use.

You can believe machines magically replaced hand planes overnight despite the millions that were made during the time, or you can come to the conclusion that while power machines reduced some arduous tasks, hand planes were still required.

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, no one is disputing that planers and jointer came into use in the later parts of the 1870s.

Planers came into use in the 1870's? You might try doing some research. We usually consider 1840 as the transition time. Here is a Woodworth's patent drawing from 1828. Three knife cutterhead.
751px-Patent_USI1X0005315_edit.jpg

[Mark Maleski]

Oof, no safety police back in those days then?

[steven c newman]

Nor here,it would seem......someone restores a tool to it's former glory....and all some can do is argue about why such planes existed, were used, or were needed.

Beautiful work...lost amongst the hijackers. Must have been a good market for those planes....I seem to stumble over them at every sale and shop. If there wasn't a market, nobody would have made them in those numbers.

So....the restore looks great....let the arguments continue, I'll go and pop the popcorn...

[Pat Barry]

Nor here,it would seem......someone restores a tool to it's former glory....and all some can do is argue about why such planes existed, were used, or were needed.

Beautiful work...lost amongst the hijackers. Must have been a good market for those planes....I seem to stumble over them at every sale and shop. If there wasn't a market, nobody would have made them in those numbers.

So....the restore looks great....let the arguments continue, I'll go and pop the popcorn...

What you talking about willis? Stewie'S OP is about a new build