That Howard Adjuster looks like a nice addition to a plane. The ball bearing rotates freely while you adjust the blade. It eliminated any scraping between the adjuster wheel and the earlier one piece brass knob. And,it won't wear out!
Member
That Howard Adjuster looks like a nice addition to a plane. The ball bearing rotates freely while you adjust the blade. It eliminated any scraping between the adjuster wheel and the earlier one piece brass knob. And,it won't wear out!
Contributor
I have one on my LN #60 1/2 - I reported this about a year ago. It works very well, a definite upgrade. I have just ordered one for my LN #103 - this is a smaller wheel in the same design. Just make available.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
That's the way I do it Jim.Originally Posted by Jim Koepke
I don't have to have the latest model of every tool.
Member
The lack of set screws or Norris adjuster has never bothered me on my 62, but I can see how both might be handy for someone that is new to hand tool woodworking. Rather than sweat the decision between the LN or Veritas low angle jack too much, both companies have a pretty decent satisfaction policy, so flip a coin. Worst case is that it goes on eBay and fetches 85% of what was spent, with seller a little poorer but wiser for the trial.
Contributor
You clearly have not used the set screws.but I can see how both might be handy for someone that is new to hand tool woodworking.
Your first post, eh? Welcome.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Contributor
Howdy Todd and Welcome to the Creek.
None of my planes have the set screws. Surely they offer an advantage. If they didn't serve a useful purpose they would likely not be retained on the LV-Veritas planes.You clearly have not used the set screws.
For me a few taps with a small mallet or the pushing of a lever gets it sorted rather quick.
There are many features in modern planes which are not available on vintage planes. Some wonder how anyone can put up with all the backlash in the depth adjuster on old Stanley planes. Nah, it doesn't bother me.
Why would anyone buy a plane without a frog adjusting screw? How often do folks adjust their frogs?
My main reason for staying with the Bailey design is it appeals to me. The Bedrock flat top to me is unappealing. The Veritas swoop makes me think of sports cars or running shoes. To me it is a beautiful design, but for me the round hump with the sloping rounded sides calls to me.
Besides for me there is as much pleasure in the hunt and restoration of rust buckets as there is in using them.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Why thanks, fellas! Here by way of OldTools List (way, way back before we listed the number of our IT), Badger Pond (memory fails), WC, and a 12 year (thus far) detour into building, repairing, and teaching guitar building. I still do a little furniture every now and again - mostly to justify keeping a bunch of tools that would otherwise be gone in a shop where the three year rule is generally applied.
I've owned a couple of the Veritas planes for extended periods of time, Derek, including the low angle jack, the 5-1/4, and the low angle block...it's the basis for my recommendation to students that they go with the Veritas Low Angle Jack (heavier casting and a little cheaper) vs. the LN as a second plane, stick with the LN bench planes if eschewing LA stuff, and if wearing a medium-sized glove or smaller, go with the LN block as a first; otherwise, flip a coin on the decision. Those Veritas tools got a lot of use and ended up ultimately going home with those that preferred them, but I never found the set screws to be useful. I know another pro luthier that loves his Veritas jack and swears by - versus at - the set screws...just proving that for every seat there is a butt. The point of my post was that - with both Veritas and LN selling used at prices that are often hard to believe (well above new retail in some cases) - it is hard to get hurt if the OP tries one and finds the set screws to be either essential or an annoyance.
Last edited by Todd Stock; 05-14-2017 at 11:55 AM.
Member
If you don't like the set screws,back them up a bit!! Yes,it does take a MODICUM of skill or attention to avoid hitting your iron on a set screw when inserting a blade. I LIKE the set screws.
I wish the new planes,like those thousands of old Stanleys you at USED to see in flea markets,had the charm of their predecessors- the Norris, Spiers, and other planes mostly made in England, and designed by people who used to know great design, which we largely seem to have lost today, except by those of us who somehow retained design skills these days.
If they were mass produced, they could be nearly as affordable as LN,LV and other fine planes. The dovetailed bodies might have to be cast, as were the last Norris planes, (I have a late Norris jack plane,cast), but they still retained the designs of their earlier models. And, if they were made of malleable iron, like the late Norris's, and as are the best planes today by LN and LV, they would be just as unbreakable if dropped. In fact, perhaps better, as the dovetails would not be jarred loose.The modern reproductions would not have to be "stuffed" with expensive woods: My late model Norris is stuffed with beech,but has a very thick dark maroonish color over it of lacquer. Not the best idea,as it has cracked(the finish only) from the wood shrinking and swelling over many years.
I wish that someone who has the money and artistic where with all in their souls, would start making a line of planes like those prized originals. And,I don't mean Holtey, whose planes are made like Rolls Royces, and priced similarly (!) I mean prices along the same lines as LN and LV. They cost a bit,but are still affordable to those who appreciate fine work.
Somehow, if you click twice on some of the pictures below, they will enlarge, as the engraved chariot plane will. I wish I took better pictures back then. I made a wooden pattern,and cast that plane,,and several others,from a bronze alloy I also made,of 10% tin and 90% copper. That 10% tin makes a HUGE difference in transforming copper, which is an obnoxious metal to turn or mill,into an easily filed,easily worked bronze. The easiest to work bronze I know of. Some bronzes are tough as stainless steel!
If CNC machines were used PROPERLY programmed to give artistic results,many of the parts on these planes could be made by them(I hate to say,but must confess). But,garbage in,garbage out seems to be the largest use of them these days. A great departure from poor design these days is the LV NX60, which is not an old design at all, but it is a GREAT design. Made by someone who has a great imagination,and great taste! Made of cast iron with so much nickel in it, it looks like solid, polished nickel. Who ever designed that plane deserves MORE PAY!!!
I still own the first 3 planes shown. The engraved bronze chariot plane was made for the president of a large corporation. The last plane is in Oregon,in the collection of a publisher.
Last edited by george wilson; 05-14-2017 at 10:33 AM.
This has turned out to be a really great thread. Lots of good discussion without folks striving to draw a line in the sand as to what is "right". Beyond the functional, I too can find beauty in the design and appearance of a hand tool without ever toughing it.
Obviously hand tools are very personal and one that sings in the hands of person "A" may feel like a brick with wings to person "B". Fortunately it seems that there is something for everyone. If you are diligent, you will find that tool that fits you like a glove and does the job with predictable, repeatable excellence.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
[OP]
Member
Well at this point I'm leaning towards LN because Veritas doesn't sell an 8 jointer and a 4-1/2 smoother at 55deg.
Then again I might just try to make my own from wood. Because both of those would set me back over $800!
Member
Craftsman Studio...EXACTLY $800 (!!!) if they are in stock (can take a week or two sometimes...free shipping). But seriously, it only stings once...while something short of what was wanted can continue to be an annoyance. I see this on a routine basis with students..."Got a great deal on X, but really wanted Y...shoulda skipped the lattes for a month/done that job for so-and-so and gotten it."
Moderator
I have a couple Veritas planes and a couple LN planes. I find the set screw a nice feature. But it's a minor feature.
I tend to lose my set screws; they back out and then disappear. And I've gone months without noticing. I also never realized there's a set screw on my shoulder plane. I do like it on my shooting plane.
Largely, the set screw fixes a problem I wasn't having (or at least that I didn't know I was having).
I wouldn't consider it a factor in my decision between two planes. Veritas offers a number of different styles of smoothing and jointing planes. I would say the other factors (bevel up/down, weight, material, blade carrier, on the custom planes, alternate knob styles) should be considered far more than the set screw.
Member
Just one man but I went with the Veritas and I like the set screws. I received a LN 4 1/2 as a partial payment for some work and I've still got it sitting new in the box over a year later. I've often thought of just selling it as I don't see myself using it..
Member
A little different experience...hand tool cabinetmaking/boatbuilding/airplane work since early 70's...amateur then pro luthier (still do a piece or two of furniture) since 2005...was an early low angle enthusiast back in the early 90's when LN brought back the #62 as an affordable tool. Over time, though, I found I kept going back to the 604 and 605 that I had traded a guitar for back in the mid-1980s (Ovation...no tears were shed). When LN came out with the #4, etc., I kept the Bedrocks for a while, then ended up selling off most of the old Stanleys. These days, most jobs get done with a 4-1/2 and 5-1/2, although my students with smaller build seem to prefer the remaining 603 or the LN 4..the LNs with the York frogs. Kept the LN 62 and still use it for the site kit due to the flexibility, and - once again - smaller students (we've had a 15" height range...5' 2" to 6' 5") dealing with a bench meant for a much taller person find the lower CG on the low angle planes to be easier than dragging the 'booster seat' (a slatted 4-1/2" tall platform) out for use.
Here's a thought, Jake...Brian might be looking for a LN 4-1/2...you have no great love for yours...private message? Maybe the average of the last three eBay sales (there are several posted or recently closed) minus half the eBay commission...win-win!
Last edited by Todd Stock; 05-15-2017 at 11:31 AM.
Contributor
Confessions, I'm a BU plane user and also a blade swapper. I like the screws and have found that it is good when blade changing. I still have some Stanley planes but seldom use them. They are just fine in use but I prefer the lower center of effort that Derek explains so well.
Jim
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