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Thread: Face frame cup hinge without the big gap?

  1. #1
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    Face frame cup hinge without the big gap?

    All the face frame cup hinges I know about have a big gap -- 3/16" -- between the door and the face frame. Does anybody know of one with a smaller gap?

  2. #2
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    In my experience the difference in gap available on this hinge format is like splitting hairs. I suppose you could mortise the hinge into the frame but, I would experiment with that a bit before hand as it could lead to other problems with this hinge geometry. Trying to apply "kitchen and bath" hardware to finer furnishings is always a compromise. A more appropriate hinge type is the real answer here. Is you goal overlay doors without visible hinges(?). Would a Youngdale hinge be an alternative? They work great but, can look dated.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 05-05-2017 at 10:57 AM.
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  3. #3
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    I use this hinge with this plate and can dial down the gap to near zero.

    The "compact" hinges all seem to need a 3/16" gap. That's why I don't use them.

  4. #4
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    I'm in the same camp as Glenn.

    Using euro hinges on face frame cabinetry is like swimming upstream. Sure the manufs. have come up with a workaround , but it really wasn't contemplated in the orig. design which was meant for frameless cabinets.

    I rarely do framed, and then itset inset -so this doesn't become an issue.

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    If you bump up your baseplate 1.5mm you can cut that gap down, but I would not want to see much less than an eighth really anyway. I commonly go 1.5 over on inset doors.

  6. #6
    In my mind that gap is a huge flaw in the "face frame" version of Euro hinges. The good news is you can use the "regular" Euro hinges is you can add some blocking behind the face frame for the plate, or make the boxes with the cabinet side flush with the inner edge of the face frame.

  7. #7
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    Similar solution as Bob described, but rather than blocking out behind the face frame I make the stiles of the face frame flush with the inside edge of the cabinet, maybe 1/32" into the cabinet. That way I can use frameless Euro hinges with all their benefits. At the most, I have to add a thin paper or plastic shim under the mounting plate if the FF projects into the cabinet a little.

    John

  8. #8
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    On the better hinges I've used- Blum, Salice, Grass, Mepla- the gap is adjustable through 1) the distance from the door edge to the edge of the cup hole, and 2) the use of the proper baseplate. This can apply to straight arm(full ovelay), half crank(half overlay) and full crank( flush or no overlay) hinges.
    Like John, I often make the face frame flush and use a 'zero' plate- the lowest of the base plates- and a full crank hinge. I've done this on 1-1/4" thick doors and set them to a 3/32" gap with good clearance on the swing But I also will edge the carcass flush with matching hardwood and set the frame to half or full overlay and use the correct hinge and baseplate; this way you don't see into the cabinet.
    You should be able to get a consistent gap of 3/32"-approximately the thickness of a nickle. If your hinges won't do it, look at a different series or brand.

  9. #9
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    Just use a face frame adapter plate with the euro hinges,most companies make them.You can get the gap down to almost zero,also no need to flush the sides out to the face frame,which is time consuming.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Neu View Post
    Just use a face frame adapter plate with the euro hinges,most companies make them.You can get the gap down to almost zero,also no need to flush the sides out to the face frame,which is time consuming.
    I'm not a fan of the behind the frame plates. I use them sparingly.



    With Blum and a full crank hinge drilled at 21.5mmm:

    Use a 6mm plate for a 1/4" pocket
    Use a 9mm plate for a 3/8" pocket
    Use a 18mm plate for a 3/4" pocket

    Flushing partitions out would be a worthless PIA.

  11. #11
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    You guys are all trying to solve a problem that is not mine, and didn't ask about. I'm building a 5'-tall medicine cabinet that will be mostly submerged into the wall. On the outside of the casework I want a flange, to cover the cut edge of the sheetrock. My idea has been that I'd have something like a face frame, but that it would go out from the body of the cabinet, not inward. This "face frame" could be something like 1 1/2" wide, which would give me a 3/4" flange and a 3/4"-thick cabinet wall. This plan would work if I can find a face frame hinge without the big ugly gap.

    I don't want to use hinges that are visible with the door closed; there are lots of doors elsewhere in the room, and none of them have visible hinges.

    Using a standard cup hinge gets dodgey. The standard cup hinge is really intended for a 3/4"-thick cabinet wall, maximum. If I use up a bunch of that 3/4" for the flange, there's little wall thickness remaining to screw the hinge plate to. I'm probably going to have to do it this way, but it is dodgey.
    Last edited by Jamie Buxton; 05-08-2017 at 10:47 AM.

  12. #12
    It's not clear to me exactly what you are trying to accomplish- or at least what you mean by "the big ugly gap". A drawing would help. If you need a 1 1/2" overlay concealed hinge, the Blum Compact line will work for you (and probably Grass, Salice, etc.) with mounting on the inside edge of your stile. This type of hinge , because of the location of its single pivot point, requires a greater projection from the face of the stile as well as a greater side clearance than "standard" cup hinges like the Blum Clip line (typically limited to about 13/16" overlay).

    A couple of options: If the wall opening is fairly plumb and parallel (or can be made so without too much work), use 1/2" cabinet sides with a 3/4"" wide stile (rabbeted to minimize its thickness if desired) and standard euro hinges.You should be able to fasten the relatively flimsy cabinet sides straight with slight shimming. Otherwise, if the design parameters allow, do a 1 1/2" rabbeted stile with inset doors.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 05-08-2017 at 3:17 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    It's not clear to me exactly what you are trying to accomplish- or at least what you mean by "the big ugly gap". A drawing would help..
    Yes, really

    . My idea has been that I'd have something like a face frame, but that it would go out from the body of the cabinet, not inward.
    ???

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    Using a standard cup hinge gets dodgey. The standard cup hinge is really intended for a 3/4"-thick cabinet wall, maximum. If I use up a bunch of that 3/4" for the flange, there's little wall thickness remaining to screw the hinge plate to. I'm probably going to have to do it this way, but it is dodgey.
    Jamie-- Maybe I don't understand the problem. I thought the issue was the large "stand-off" of the door from the face of the cabinet face frame (standard with "compact" hinges.)

    I've built a lot of medicine cabinets with "standard" euro-hinges--without that large stand-off. I don't know what you mean that the 3/4 cabinet side gets "used up". Here is a sketch of a typical medicine cabinet with standard euro-hinge. Am I missing something?

    Medicine cabinet 5-8-17.jpg

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Miner View Post
    Jamie-- Maybe I don't understand the problem. I thought the issue was the large "stand-off" of the door from the face of the cabinet face frame (standard with "compact" hinges.)

    I've built a lot of medicine cabinets with "standard" euro-hinges--without that large stand-off. I don't know what you mean that the 3/4 cabinet side gets "used up". Here is a sketch of a typical medicine cabinet with standard euro-hinge. Am I missing something?
    Jerry, that's a good drawing, and close to what I'm doing. However, on this cabinet, the edge of the door is flush with the edge of the flange. That is, the flange is not visible if you're standing right in front of the cabinet.

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