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Thread: High School Needing a Laser Engraver - Need Advice from Experts

  1. #31
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    Barton, You have an invite from Matt to see his shop. I think he has Epilogs, (MATT UPDATE YOUR SIGNATURE )
    Take him up on it!
    Epilog has a REALLY good distributor in Dallas area. Trotec is local also. There is a REALLY good Facebook group for Epilog, they WILL let outsiders in, I'm on there and I own a Chinese laser. you can ask anything and get a response.
    And probably some good advice too.
    I would definitely do MORE research, looks like you want to buy a bunch of stuff, and Yes, make your money count. I too would forget Full Spectrum. Buy Chinese direct or by from Rabbit laser!
    DO NOT Buy Chinese thru Amazon nor Ebay! you will be disappointed as there is NO support nor Warranty. I've seen it happen.
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  2. #32
    Hey Barton! I just saw your PM. Just quickly: I'm neighbors with a non-profit in Dallas that has the Shopbot you mention, if you want a tour and need help getting set up. I'll reach out to them as well as some educators I know that already operate what you are envisioning. I have a connection to a supplier with experience putting makerspaces in schools and libraries too. I'll give you a shout tomorrow, when I hear back from them.

  3. #33
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    Barton,

    I will have Trotec contact information for you this morning for their corporate office in Michigan. This is the best way to negotiate a discount for Trotec machines.

  4. #34
    Thanks Keith. I reached out to them directly and they passed me onto a Educational Reseller.

  5. #35
    Barton, I just sent an email intro to some folks that can help.

  6. #36
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    Kris Tennyson is the person to contact at Trotec's Corporate office. I have provided you with his contact information via PM.

  7. #37
    It's none of my business, but I'm generally perplexed why a school is spending $25k+ on a laser to engrave on water bottles and iPods. How is that educational at all? How is it even financially prudent? It sounds like a terrible waste of resources. It's also disrespectful to local businesses which count on this type of business to keep their doors open. Instead you're getting free labor to do the job and you have no operational overhead. The whole premise bothers me a bit.

    Your focus should be on design/CAD and creating unique items that require these tools. For example, if someone wants to create some plywood chair they designed in one of their classes, a CNC is a great tool because it will allow them to go through the whole process. It also doesn't take money out of the pockets of local businesses as frankly, no one would really want to do that type of job.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross Moshinsky View Post
    It's none of my business, but I'm generally perplexed why a school is spending $25k+ on a laser to engrave on water bottles and iPods. How is that educational at all? How is it even financially prudent? It sounds like a terrible waste of resources. It's also disrespectful to local businesses which count on this type of business to keep their doors open. Instead you're getting free labor to do the job and you have no operational overhead. The whole premise bothers me a bit.

    Your focus should be on design/CAD and creating unique items that require these tools. For example, if someone wants to create some plywood chair they designed in one of their classes, a CNC is a great tool because it will allow them to go through the whole process. It also doesn't take money out of the pockets of local businesses as frankly, no one would really want to do that type of job.
    I respectfully disagree Ross. I understand times are tough for a lot of traditional engravers in some areas of the country. But if a group of high school students with one laser and one cnc hurts someone's business that much, they probably weren't going to make it anyways.

    I also think it IS prudent to go ahead and get a top quality, fast US made machine IF the GRANT allows for it. It greatly reduces the chance the machine will be down for significant time, and also allows for students to complete their projects in a time and manner that will hold their interest.

    To each his own I guess, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But in my eyes something like this is barely a blip on the radar for the commercial industry; and if it helps some underprivileged kids take a step in the right direct then I'm all for it.
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  9. #39
    Good businesses do not count on 1 client but many. No one should go out of business if the local HS decides to not use your services, but losing business hurts when it's a decent order.

    Also, I'm not saying don't buy high technology equipment. I'm saying don't buy high tech equipment to do grunt work with it. We're supposed to expand the minds of young students. They're supposed to use these machines to create new and interesting things. Putting the school mascot on a $1.00 powder coated mug pays the bills for some of us, but it's not educational. If you look at the average wage of an engraver, it's low. If you talk to anyone on here making a living doing this, they consider themselves a business owner that happens to offer an engraving service. If any of these business owners closed their business and went to work for someone else as just an engraver, they'd struggle to exist because the difference in wages is dramatic.

    These tools should be used to educate young people for their future. Marking iPads with an ID number or engraving $1 water bottles does nothing to benefit these kids. Remember, kids are growing up with great technology at their finger tips. To limit your lesson plan to such a mundane lesson plan is doing everyone a disservice.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  10. #40
    Ross,

    You make an assumption that this is all we are doing. To the contrary those simple projects are just intended to earn us $5,000 to $8,000 a year to support the program. Those funds pay go right back into the program and most of those funds go into "community service" projects and "scholarships" for the kids.

    We have a competitive program called SkillsUSA where the kids made custom furniture or professional signs, etc...

    But you have to have something "easy" to sell to other schools in the district and parents. I can sell 500 water bottles to kids and parents in the district and make $5,000 a year which is done AFTER SCHOOL.

    My kids learn full CAD design using AutoDesk Inventor, they learn Computer Aided Manufacturing with AutoDesk HSM. They learn about additive and subtractive manufacturing, Kaizen, Six Sigma, Build To Order, etc...

    Before you attack me or my kids take a minute to learn. A link to a great article about what high schools do with Laser Engravers is below. We are trying to do the same:

    https://www.pltw.org/blog/entreprene...ring-classroom

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Barton Scott View Post
    We have a competitive program called SkillsUSA where the kids made custom furniture or professional signs, etc...
    Just curious, how much do the kids get paid per hour to make "Professional Signs"? If the answer is zero, then you aren't running a business.
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  12. #42
    Most every post I read was with the focus of spitting out fundraiser items. I didn't see questions which were talking about the best machine to produce robotic components, industrial designs, or furniture. Where are the questions about compatibility with any type of high level software?

    So my point remains, if all you're doing is focusing on having kids come after school and put the school logo on $1 water bottles, you're doing them a great disservice. If you have the machine running in the background while the group is focused on a major project then the kids are actually getting educated and you're help funding their projects.

    If you're trying to teach them how to run a business, then you should start accounting for their time and the cost of their resources. Rent, utilities, insurance, COGS and most important, salary.

    Also PS: You can have the kids produce a design, bring it to your local ASI vendor or silkscreener and get a water bottle out the door for around $5-6. Sell them for the same $10 and you're making money, supporting local businesses, and not using unpaid labor. I'm kind of baffled as to why people want to work to put small businesses out and then turn around and complain there aren't any jobs.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  13. #43
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    Hey Ross I'm not sure what the difference is between a laser engraver or a CNC router in your scenario, some of us make a living running CNC routers. Either way it does seem wise to teach high tech machining and engraving in schools in the same vane as students are taught drafting, english or math. As far as raising funds it has long been acceptable for students to sell products to raise money for a variety of reasons. I never heard a bakery complain about students selling cookies they made in the school culinary class.

    I've had similar conversations with companies like JDS when they refused to sell engraving materials to us at Christopher Newport University because they were afraid that the engraving companies they served would get mad at them for supporting educational facilities. Strange that anyone would feel they have the right to dictate what other organizations can or should not be doing. There are laser companies that have started training classes and I can't remember any educational institutions complaining about the competition.

    I rebuilt the ShopBot CNC router at Gloucester High School last year and lately I have been helping the teacher and some students get familiar with their router. From my vantage point I hope that sometime in the future it will help us develop the next generation of sign makers. I have also encouraged them to think about items the students can produce and sell to help fund and expand their program. There is something very satisfying when you design and then produce your own design rather then farm it out to a local company.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 05-12-2017 at 1:21 PM.

  14. #44
    1. Anyone with an oven, bowl, spoon, and a cookie sheet can make cookies. The local bakeries have no expectations of getting the business for a bake sale.

    2. You were paid as an employee, right? While bringing work in house will always be a controversial topic on forums like this and sign forums, I see it as a distinctly different conversation than having students work for free. While it's not the same, it would be similar to your University offering to do a "sign making class" where students came in and made signs for the university. And because so much production is getting done by them, guess what, you're hours are now cut from 40+ a week to maybe 15-20 or your staff is cut down because of all the free labor. Sound fair?

    3. There is no real overlap between Epilog doing a "class" and some Tech Shop doing a "class". The target audience is going to be quite different.

    4. As I've said more than once now. I have no problem with educating students on how to use CNC routers, mills, or lasers. I think it's a good thing. There is too much theoretical knowledge and not enough actual knowledge. I have a problem when the curriculum and focus is using the machines in a manner which is barely of educational purpose. We should be pushing young individuals to explore their ideas and thoughts. Make things they'll never have a chance to make. Do something interesting. Putting a logo on 500 water bottles is not what I'd consider educational.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  15. #45
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    Our Program was not allowed to charge money for outside projects brought in for the students to fix. We were allowed to bill for the refrigerant and other supplies used but the money for the student labor was a suggested donation to the students pizza fund or graduation party bbq picnic fund. We got negative feedback for trying to compete with local companies so it was very limited as to what we could do or not do. I can see Ross's point, maybe a dozen mugs to teach design and learn the programs or one per student on which they are graded, but 500?
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

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