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Thread: Axiom AR8 VS. ???

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Cleveland OH
    Posts
    72
    Kirk it sounds like you are moving up the ladder quickly ($20k per month is pretty good) So my comment to art might be helpful to you in the future - US Laws not Canada (But very good practices)

    Home Equipment VS Commercial Equipment
    Art,
    My comment about 50k for a good commercial machine was made on a few buying points for myself and my shop. We run a commercial business with employees that requires us to meet OSHA Rules and guidelines - A home shop will not require this. Kirk also states that he runs a Engraving company which puts him into a new class (Not Sure how Canada Law Works - Probably similar but not certain)

    Buying Points
    1. We wanted a machine that had a power disconnect and lockout/Tagout - This is required by OSHA to service a machine in a commercial setting. I attached a picture below (Wont Upload) - Cammaster doesn't say it has this but it could and you can install it at your power disconnect located by your machine ($250 - $1000 Depending who does it).
    2. A ATC (Automatic Tool Change) is a must in my shop, we completed a job last week engraving 22 table tops requiring 4 tool changes. OSHA requires you to disconnect and power down your machine when manually changing a tool bit that places any part of an employees body in the machines danger zone. At 25K RPM if someone has a wrench or hand on a bit or tool head and the machine starts they just lost a finger or an eye. Now you have to worry about work mens comp Cost, a Nice OSHA fine and your insurance company now has the Negligence card to use to fight your employees injury clam. This could close a small shop very quickly, Plus a ATC saved use 15 minutes per table top - .25Hours x $18 x 22 tops = $99 Savings on one job.
    3. A strong spindle with variable speeds and vacuum hold down table and pump - A 12 Hp spindle worked for us but 20 hp would have been better. If you cant change the Rpms to match your bits and materiel then your bits die faster and your cleaning up more edges. We had to upgrade our vacuum pump from a 10 hp system, couldn't hold down all of our parts - I had to upgrade or I would have to pay my self and my guys to remove and sand tab marks - I did this for a month it was horrible cost me a fortune.

    There are many other things I look for but Lets price a Cammaster for fun - (CAmmaster Offers these options but cost extra)
    Machine - Cobra CR-408 - $28K
    Shipping - $700 (3200 Lbs requires a Towmotor $400 to rent one for a day with drop off)
    Bit Kit - $1200 (You need Bits)
    Vacuum- $1500 (10 Hp Regen)
    Dust Collector - $1200 (Not Getting far without this)
    ATC- $15K (I think im close)
    Power Install & Disconnect - $650 (20 Ft Distance - Im not running 3 Phase myself)
    Total : $48,250

    At my home shop I could drop the price to $20k or even a AR8 It would be great for me and it would be a good machine. When your dealing with a business and a commercial location and a commercial machine you cant skip on safety and practical upgrades. I worked in a commercial shop for 5 years - OSHA visited us about every six months, If they would have seen me sticking my hand into a Spindle with a live machine we would have been fined and I would have been fired. A home based shop is alot different than a Commercial setting with employees. Not all shops practice by OSHA standards but its the Law and you can loss your company really fast (I Cant loss my business I have a family, House, Cars that are paid for by my business profits) Working 10 hours a week on a machine is alot different than 90 hours and employees that count on a machine running all day (2 shifts) - There are 100s if not 1000s of shop that are safe and effective to ensure your product is make well. My grand father is 79 and was a machinist most of his life - He has 6.5 fingers left and a huge scar from his shoulder to his palm, all machine accidents at work and he has a great story for each one :-) ( I added my grandpas story because my employees are my friends and kinda like family and I would never make a unsafe environment to save a few dollars) - Can you live without a Tool changer in a good shop, Yes but for me it saves me time and makes a safer work environment.
    Last edited by Robert Bonenfant; 05-18-2017 at 10:17 PM.
    3X Camfive 1200 48" x 24" 100watt Tube
    Zcorp 450 3d Printer
    Laguna Smartshop 2 - 4x8 ATC

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