Axiom AR8 VS. ???

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey guys,

We have a laser engraving company but we are looking to expand into a
CNC machine. After a good amount of research, I'm kind of looking at the Axiom AR8

What do you guys think of this brand/company/model?

What other companies have compelling offers for this level

Thanks,
Kirk

[Art Mann]

This is just my opinion but I don't believe Axiom is in the same class as Camaster, Shopbot, Shopsabre and a few other commercial grade US manufacturers. These machines are more expensive but if you are intending to make money with these units, I think the difference in performance and reliability is worth it.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hmm I am interested in making money or I wouldn't be putting up the money.
I thought Axiom had a solid product for the price... is that not the thoughts around here?

[Steve Misher]

The Axiom is a solid machine. Doesn't cut as fast as the others, but costs less. The Pro models come with a spindle and the cooling system is self contained, so you don't have a bucket of water under the machine. As for me, I think 200 ipm cut speed is fast, but others, need to cut faster, so they buy a Camaster or other brands.
I personally like the pendant controller, others think it's stupid and feel they need a pc connected to their machine.

It just depends on what you feel you need!

[Keith Outten]

The faster a CNC machine is capable of running, the more mass and frame rigidity is required. Its pretty discouraging watching your machine frame flex and wiggle when your running a job that requires the gantry to move in short bursts and you have the speed cranked up. Just a couple examples of the reason for stronger frames and increased mass that you see on commercial quality machines.

Although I have always been a fan of ShopBot machines CAMaster uses a welded frame that is solid and will never shake, flex, wiggle or lose its plumb and square. ShopBots are bolted together and although they are very sturdy frames with plenty of mass they aren't as solid as a welded frame.

[Art Mann]

The Axiom may well be a good machine for the price. What I meant by my previous comment is that if your livelihood depends on your equipment, a little more money could pay off down the road in performance, durability and, early on, support. When I had a question come up with my Camaster, I was able to talk to one of the engineers who designs their machines. I don't think you would be able to do that with the Axiom. Through their forum, I am able to interact and get answers from people who have been earning a living with their brand of machine for many years. I am familiar with lots of people earning a living with the brands I mentioned. I haven't seen anyone who is earning a living with an Axiom. I am sure there are some but it just isn't that common.

I just noticed you are from Canada. The availability of CNC brands across the border may change the picture a great deal. I still say seek out a company with a long record of supplying commercial grade machines.

[Robert Bonenfant]

Hey Kirk,

The machine you are looking at will not make you any money - Maybe a lucky few will chime in but the chances of you making profit off this machine is slim. This machine is for hobbyist and is great for new comers into cnc routeing and it will help you understand and get a feel for the industry. You can make a few signs But thats about it sadly. It doesn't have the power or speed or reliability to even start to match up to a commercial machine. I would suggest farming out your cnc work until you have enough to get into a commercial machine (50K Plus). Its a hard field to jump into but once you can get a commercial machine and you hustle up the work you can make alot of money. Without a heavy duty machine its just not worth the effort to make something that takes an hour to make - your neighbor with a commercial router can cut it 5 minutes. 50 ipm vs 1500 ipm big diffrence - my current machine cuts well upto 600 ipm and we still want to move faster, diffrence from completing 1 job a day to completing three or four a day with the same man power.

Update : My comment wasn't meant to be rude in anyway - Im thinking in terms of running a business full time based on this machine would be hard to do - Im not the most experienced in anyway, Ive only been working with CNCs for about 7 years, have had my own shop for about 2 years now. Others have been doing this for over 20 years. - Im just adding my experience about cnc routers and my shop, I also didn't know this was a home based business this helps save on extra bills. In my shop I couldn't use this machine because it wouldn't be efficient enough for me to pay one of my guys to watch it and reloaded it ($18 per hour), this is how i base my option. If your running the machine than you would be able to cut that cost. I just base my prospective off being a production shop that makes 1000's of the same part each week.

[Art Mann]

I am going to have to differ with Robert. You can buy a good commercial 4X8 CNC router for less than $50,000. Here are some examples of my favorite brand.

http://www.camaster.com/cnc-routers/...es-cnc-router/

Depending on what you are doing, you can get a much smaller machine that will make you money. I have a 2X3 machine and I make money with it. I could make a lot more but I am retired and don't want a full time job. You are in the engraving business. It doesn't seem likely to me that you would want to cut a lot of whole sheets of plywood but you never know where this might take you.

[Mike DeRegnaucourt]

Hi Kirk,

We have an Axiom AR8 and it is a solid well built (very heavy) machine. Of course it is not in the league of those $50,000 machines either. We too have a an Epilog laser and the AR8 makes a great compliment as well as addition to our business. Our business is a side business and not a full-time business though. Depending on the price range you are wanting to stay within, I think the Axiom AR8 could be a very good choice. The Axiom AR8 and AR6 are really the same machines that Powermatic offers.

Sure I would love to have one of the huge $50,000 machines but for a side business run out of our house I definitely do not have the room or the money. Just getting the AR8 down into the basement I had to hire a local piano moving company because the machine was just way too heavy for me and a buddy to lift. It took the piano movers four big guys to carry the AR8 down into the basement. That is without the stand! The stand alone is pretty heavy and beefy but luckily I could carry that down to the basement in pieces and assemble it down there. If our side business continues to grow and we can afford a larger shop as well as a larger machine, I would definitely be in the market for one of those expensive machines. When you are looking at $7000 to $8000 versus an outlay of $50,000+ for a small home-based business, the choice at this time made much more sense for us to go with the Axiom.

Just my 2-cents or well maybe 5.3-cents worth.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Art,

Thanks. I know what you mean.. I think i'm going to have a look at Camaster as well.

My needs are to slowly expand into cutouts and signage. My laser business takes most of my time.
This is more of something I want to grow slowly so I don't need a huge machine just yet.

I was looking at axiom because

1. It's available in Canada from Elite Tools in Quebec
2. I don't have to deal with customs etc.
3. For the money, $8,500 CAD, I though it had the most solid structure
4. I really like the way the customer service has treated me so far. I even got invited down to Ohio to see them in action and being put together as well as a demo. Very human and responsive emails from them. I like that because it reminds me a bit like my distributors at Epilog Canada. And they've treated me very well

However, I am still open to suggestions and more research is needed.

Thanks,
Kirk

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Kirk,

The machine you are looking at will not make you any money - Maybe a lucky few will chime in but the chances of you making profit off this machine is slim. This machine is for hobbyist and is great for new comers into cnc routeing and it will help you understand and get a feel for the industry. You can make a few signs But thats about it sadly. It doesn't have the power or speed or reliability to even start to match up to a commercial machine. I would suggest farming out your cnc work until you have enough to get into a commercial machine (50K Plus). Its a hard field to jump into but once you can get a commercial machine and you hustle up the work you can make alot of money. Without a heavy duty machine its just not worth the effort to make something that takes an hour to make - your neighbor with a commercial router can cut it 5 minutes. 50 ipm vs 1500 ipm big diffrence - my current machine cuts well upto 600 ipm and we still want to move faster, diffrence from completing 1 job a day to completing three or four a day with the same man power.

Wow what a bold statement. "The machine you are looking at will not make you money".
Com'on man... lol it's 2017.

I started my business with a 5th gen hobby laser, passion and determination. I later upgraded to a 60watt helix paid in cash from the money I made.
Then I quit my job as a software developer and eventually my wife quit her job working in government. We now work out of our home workshop and
will do 20k this month.

Sure the machine is important but it's only a % of why we make money.

If I decide to go with the AR8, I will easily turn that into another income for us. Until we can get a bigger house and a bigger shop to
buy a bigger machine.

We're not cutting industrial parts here. Or have huge demand just yet. We just need a solid machine that can do a few signs and some cutouts for
our industry.

Kirk

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for writing all that. Nice to hear someone's take on the AR8!
I believe this is the machine we are going to go with!

Thanks,
Kirk

[Robert Bonenfant]

My comment wasn't meant to be rude in anyway - Im thinking in terms of running a business full time based on this machine would be hard to do - Im not the most experienced in anyway, Ive only been working with CNCs for about 7 years, had my own shop for about 2 years. Others have been doing this for over 20 years. - Im just adding my experience about cnc routers and my shop, I also didn't know this was a home based business this helps save on extra bills. In my shop I couldn't use this machine because it wouldn't be efficient enough for me to pay one of my guys to watch it and reloaded it, this is how i base my option. If your running the machine than you would be able to cut that cost. I just base my prospective off being a production shop that makes 1000's of the same part each week. I hope that you can buy this machine and make a ton of money, Make sure you keep us update on your success so you can prove me wrong :-) .

[Kirk Quesnelle]

After I wrote that, I realized you were probably basing it on a large big volume shop.
That makes sense

Thanks

[richard newman]

Interesting thread. There are certainly more than one type of commercial shop, not everyone is pushing tons of product out and trying to compete with all the other shops for the same jobs. Nor does everyone need to take huge cuts in heavy material.

I was a full time studio furniture make my entire adult (disputable) life. I made intricate, technically sophisticated work, and my reputation and success were based on the quality of the designs & craftsmanship, not the pricing. We weren't fast, had 2 employees, but we were good, with no real competition for what we could do. I had big industrial machines for their accuracy and capcity, not speed.

Semi-retired now, I make mostly banjos, trying to play that same game. I don't compete on price, i make a superior original product. Having finally plunged into cnc with a little Techno davinci 12" x 10" router, I'm hooked, thinking I need a larger machine, maybe 2' x 3' envelope. I won't be hogging off tons of wood, but need to be as accurate and repeatable as possible, to .001" if possible. Right now I use the router for inlay work and profiling cuts, I can forsee making decorative table top objects also, vessels and boxes, maybe some small furniture too. The Axiom machines seem to be a possibility, but I'm wide open to suggestions.