Do Amana Grooving Cutters Reverse for Tenons?

[Bill Adamsen]

Does anyone know if the Amana grooving cutters reverse for tenons?
https://www.amanatool.com/61355-inse...-1-4-bore.html
There was a thread here a few years ago that implied they didn't. But they look just like my Garniga Heads so I would think they should.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/archive/.../t-214769.html

[Larry Edgerton]

They have scorers on both sides so I see no reason that you could not stack two with a spacer. They are flat without the hub that some have so you should be able to do any width tenon that you please I would think.

Phone number is 1-800-445-0077

Larry

[Bill Adamsen]

They have scorers on both sides ...

Good point ... based on the photo they DON'T have scorers on both sides ... so that would require they be reversed so that the scorer is on the inside.

I spoke to Frank at Amana and the feedback was that once separated (and reversed) there is no way to index the bodies ... meaning there could be large open areas that could trap material and be a safety issue. His recommendation was that I could use two full cutters to create a safe tenoning cutter, but not a single cutter. It is an interesting point. I have been using my Garniga cutter this way for sometime. I suspect others are as well. Is this really a safety issue?

[Wayne Lomman]

I agree with the tool supplier about the safety issue. Large voids in the cutting circle create the possibility of feeding too fast and grabbing a big chunk in the gap. It's less likely with power feeding but very risky with hand feeding. This is why the good cutters are generally circular with limited gaps and the best ones have profiled chip limiters as well. You can all judge for yourselves whether the risk is acceptable or not. The tool guy was doing his job warning the customer of possible consequences. Cheers

[Larry Edgerton]

Good point ... based on the photo they DON'T have scorers on both sides ... so that would require they be reversed so that the scorer is on the inside.

I spoke to Frank at Amana and the feedback was that once separated (and reversed) there is no way to index the bodies ... meaning there could be large open areas that could trap material and be a safety issue. His recommendation was that I could use two full cutters to create a safe tenoning cutter, but not a single cutter. It is an interesting point. I have been using my Garniga cutter this way for sometime. I suspect others are as well. Is this really a safety issue?

I looked it up in the catalog. If you look carefully at the picture you posted you can see the scorers on the bottom side.

As long as you stick to the design parameters, separating the disks no more than the pins allow you should have a continuous ring of aluminum in the cut. I know you are not wanting to use the halves separately, and that sounds like what the tech was thinking.

I use similar disks for tenoning all the time, no issues, and I am very pleased with all of the Amana cutters I have purchased. I always look to them first as the are less expensive and the quality is excellent.

[Bill Adamsen]

If you look carefully at the picture you posted you can see the scorers on the bottom side.

Each "half" has one set on one side. On my Garniga each half has scorers on both sides (see photo below). But that doesn't really matter because my intent was to separate, reverse (top to bottom bottom to top) and shim the center to the tenon thickness as in the second photo. Reversed, the halves have the scoring cutters on the inside. But of course no "interlocking".

I know you are not wanting to use the halves separately

That's the question. I am wanting to, but want to confirm how bad of an idea that actually is and how lucky I have been doing this in the past. I've actually been doing this for tenons for quite some time (clamped but hand fed on a sliding table) and I'm only becoming enlightened to the potential risks now.

[Larry Edgerton]

I am not exactly Mr. Safety but I would not do that these days. In the past, maybe, but have been bit.

Just bite the bullet and buy two heads....... Two heads are better than one you know................

[Bill Adamsen]

Two heads are better than one ...........

Love the quote ... marketing genius!

[Andy Giddings]

Bill, the one I use from Felder looks the same as your Garniga I think. I use it for tenons and even the Felder site and enclosed instruction sheet shows it being used for that purpose http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US...ing-RB-HW.html. It is a MAN rated cutter without interlock in that position. You're relying on the spindle compression to maintain the two cutters in position

[Bill Adamsen]

You raise a good question though. Cutters rated for MAN for one purpose (my Garniga for instance) may not be for all possible configurations. The Amana shows that it is rated for MAN, but one would assume not reversed for tenons. Does clamped on a sliding table mean MAN or MEC? Good discussion awhile back on MAN vs MEC. Appreciate the input.

[Andy Giddings]

I would think any Euro manufacturer of tooling would consider MAN to apply to the different advertised configs as well - given the Health and Safety legislation