shaper insert tooling question

[Mike Kees]

I am looking for manufacturers and recommendations for a corrugated knife cutterhead and also a "lockedge" style cutterhead. I already have a CMT insert style head so if the lockedge is going to be overlap let me know. I am interested in a 3'' high corrugated head to make baseboards/casings for my house. MY shaper is a steel city 3h.p. i have 3/4 and one inch spindles. I intend to buy 1 1/4'' inch tooling (preparing for an eventual upgrade).So far the only manufacturer that I have found is CCG Schmitt. Are there others ? I want to buy once and get good ones. Thanks,Mike.

[Darcy Warner]

call woodworkers tool works in WI.

[Mel Fulks]

I think that Schmidt is now the only supplier of the old style shaper collars. I reject the idea that they are "too dangerous"
but fully embrace the idea that they are too expensive.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have one of these in 4", holds knives, is round, doesn't vibrate, two bevels. I'm happy.

http://www.oellasawandtool.com/produ...%7B47%7D4.html

[Mark Wooden]

Corrugated heads are available from several suppliers, talk to Bobby at Woodworkers Supply. He's been in the tooling business all his life and will set you up with the right tooling at a good price.

Lock edge heads are becoming a thing of the past, Schmidt makes them but doesn't want to admit it and will want to check your shorts if you ask to buy one. The steel needed for knives is expensive and not a lot of places carry it anymore. Setting one up should be done with a dial indicator and it can be very painstaking to do correctly.
Stay with the corrugated heads, they're easy to use, steel is less expensive and profiles are of course unlimited. I'd start with a 3" tall head and expand as your needs grow

[Mike Kees]

Thanks for the replies. Larry I looked at the head that you have,what do you use to lock the knives in ? I was unclear from the description online. In my research I have also come up with more questions. 1. CW or CCW how do you decide ? What determines this ? just feed direction. Do I just pick one and run my feeder in reverse if I ever need/want to climb cut ? 2. How far out of a corrugated head can a knife project (up or down) before it is time to buy a larger head ?Thanks again in advance for any help, Mike.

[William Addison]

I'd give W. Moore Profiles a call, they're about the best company I've ever dealt with. I've bought a couple of corrugated heads and several knives from them and always been happy. Ask for Stephen, he can answer any questions you have, and in detail.

[Larry Edgerton]

Mike the description is not really clear, it comes with the jibs, you just have to buy blank knife stock for the two slots that you are not using. You only use two knives at a time, different degrees for soft and hard. Just give Dave a call, tell him Larry sent you. He will set you up with what you need, and does an excellent job on knives as well.

There are many good companies out there, Dave is just the one I deal with most. He has been good to me.

[Mike Kees]

With all the info that everyone has given me here I am sure that I now have enough sources to find what I need . A sincere thank you to everyone for the help. Mike.

[Phillip Gregory]

A molder is probably the best piece of equipment for doing what you intend to do. They can run much wider profiles than your shaper and have built in power feed. Grizzly (and likely others) sells a smaller 1 1/2 hp one for about a grand and Williams and Hussey sell larger units for somewhat more.

Corrugated heads are the most appropriate for what you are doing. A 3" tall unit is about what you can run and expect to pay about $200 for a set of knives for it. Costs are about ~$70/inch for a set of knives according to my local saw shop.

Lockedge stuff has its place but your CMT Euroblock head will let you do much of what you could do with smaller lockedge stuff, and far more safely and easily. You have to set lockedge knives with a micrometer while all you have to do with a Euroblock is loosen the hex screws to take out the gibs, pop the knives over the posts, and then replace the gib and tighten up the gib screws, no setting required. I have Amana's 120 mm steel Euroblock for my 4 hp Whitney shaper (which uses the exact same knives as your CMT unit, and in fact some of my knives are CMT) and it is a very simple and well thought out unit and trivial to change knives for, and knives are widely available and cheap. Corrugated heads are also much easier than lockedge heads to set as you simply have to count the number of corrugations to set them. If you have a corrugated head and a Euroblock, you probably don't have much to gain from adding lockedege tooling.

General rule of thumb is profile projection is 3x the thickness of the knife, so a 1/4" thick knife can give a 3/4" deep profile. Knives have to be within 1/2" in vertical height of the cutterhead height to work properly for corrugated knives. You can run 40 or 50 mm knives on a 40 mm tall Euroblock, but Amana's 60 mm Euroblock will only run with its 60 mm knives, not the 40 or 50 mm ones as the post spacing differs.

As far as whether to spin the cutter CW or CCW, that depends on several factors. The default direction is that shapers spin counterclockwise as you feed into them from right to left, so you want cutters set up for CCW rotation in most cases. Your shaper is a single spindle reversible unit, you can spin it either direction. Many Euroblock knives have different profiles on the top and bottom of the knife, so you will want to flip over the head to spin it in the direction that has the desired profile facing upwards so you can shape your stock face-down with the knife and head below the work surface. An older dual-spindle shaper where each spindle can only be safely spun in one direction (and the two spindles spin in opposite directions) would have tooling set up for the proper rotation for each spindle. Also, some situations are better served by climb cutting with a power feeder (do not climb cut by hand on a shaper!), so in that case you would use a cutterhead with the "opposite" orientation.

I would start with normal CCW rotation cutters on your unit and then get different ones only if you know you need them after using the CCW orientation units.

[Larry Edgerton]

Just a note on climb cutting. As Phillip said, USE A FEEDER! Take the time to look at what is going on and you will see that the cutter is pulling the stock into the cutter. And if it gets a bite, it pulls even harder. You are not fast enough to avoid injury if it grabs doing it by hand, not even if you are Bruce Lee. When doing it with a feeder, make sure no one is standing/working on the outfeed side, because if it grabs that part will be a projectile firing off at over 100mph. This is something you have to have perfectly clear in your head, the forces involved that is, before you attempt it.

Not trying to scare you, just want you to have respect for this operation.

[Mike Kees]

Hey Larry,no worries I do not intend to make climb cutting an everyday thing. Thanks for the advice of how to approach it . I have always thought that it is sort of like trying to cut from the wrong side of a table saw.

[Warren Lake]

probably worse way more cutting surface to grab and higher RPM. Ive yet to try it or need it but understand the reasons, are there any molders at all that run material climb cut, all those size sided Weinig and others for people in the bigger leagues, its a question as ive never run a molder but do know people with those businesses and never thought to ask, last guy I asked running his fathers bus that was also his grandfathers bus was using high speed corrugated on most of the machines.

[Bob Falk]

I agree with using a molder to cut wide trim profiles (and narrower ones for that matter). Though I have a shaper, I also have a Woodmaster and have used it to mold all the trim in my remodeled 1927 home. Knives are relatively cheap and can be custom made. Because a Woodmaster is variable speed, you can get a very nice finish. A used 12" Woodmaster can be had relatively cheaply and you don't have the big investment in a powerful shaper, feeder, and cutter heads. IMO, a Woodmaster is safer. It may be in my head, but there is something inherently discomforting about cutters spinning on a vertical axis as opposed to horizontally. BTW, I bought my Woodmaster used, and somewhat reluctantly, as I thought it might be a crappy machine. It is a well built, accurate, and versatile machine and I love it. BTW, no affiliation to WM.

[Mark Bolton]

If your budget conscious go to Oella Saw and Tool and buy one of their dual hook corrugated heads. We have several of them. Super competetively priced and great quality and Dave is an absolute gift to work with. Awesome knowledge, cheap knives (usually 20 and inch).

With regards to molder vs. shaper, for us, if we can run it on the shaper it goes on the shaper. We have a W&H moulder that gets extensive use but the shaper is just faster all around (higher FPM).
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