Felder vs AL-KO DC

[Anthony Spotorno]

Well I was almost ready to pull the trigger on a Felder Duct Collector, currently they only have the RL200 available, and Martin called with a real good deal on the AL-KO 200. It is a couple thousand more than the Felder 200 unit, but it has the pulse air filter cleaning that is not available on the Felder units till you get to the RL250 series.

So really looking for advice. It is a big purchase and I do have the extra $$ in the budget, I just want to make sure it is well spent.


Does anyone have any experience with the AL-KO units? Very little on youtube to look at.

Thanks

[Chris Parks]

Why would you go down this route in preference to a cyclone? That sounds like I am being critical but I am genuinely interested in the thinking behind your choice as I can't see any advantage and a lot of (in my eyes) disadvantages.

[David Kumm]

AL-KO are a very high end unit. For the huge price though you should talk to a bunch of commercial DC companies and talk about the type of dust you are going to collect, the machines, type size, cfm needed, and volume to be generated. Collectors are a combination of impeller, separator, filters, and cleaning system and you may well find other solutions for either less cost or better suited to your needs. Dave

[Chris Parks]

I honestly cannot see where the advantage is over a cyclone, especially if the cyclone can be vented to the atmosphere.

[Matthew Hills]

What are the relative advantages/disadvantages compared to cyclones (oneida or clearvue) or felder RL-series?
(are the AL-KO similar to the Felder dust extractors?)

I'd expect criteria to be: flow for dust extraction, filtration of return air, noise, size, and then the overall usability (emptying collection; dealing with overfill conditions, etc.)?

(are the specs for AL-KO on the martin site different than on the AL-KO site? seemed like lots of 400V/50Hz motors)

Matt

[Chris Parks]

Is this for a hobby or production installation Anthony? That is the information we need to advise you on this.

[Rick Fisher]

I own a Felder RL-160 and have examined the ALKO 250 at the AWFS show .. Seen it running and gave it a good look over.

The ALKO is a nicer fit and finish IMO .. Its a quieter machine. My Felder RL-160 is brutal for keeping the filter clean.. if I could pay a few thousand dollars and have pulse cleaning right now, well, tell me where to send the check.

Venting into the atmosphere is okay, unless your in a climate where you either heat, or cool your shop. A 7.5hp Dust collector is going to remove heated or cooled air at a rapid rate.

I was of the opinion that the ALKO 200 was only a 4hp machine.. or maybe 4kw .. I'm working on memory ..

Compared to a cyclone, I would suggest noise would be the #1 ... And air quality would be #2. IF I where to buy a German DC again, Filter cleaning would be my biggest, #1 consideration .. Its a real pet peeve with the Felder for me .

[Joe Jensen]

Coincidentally I prepared this table tonight for Rick The Al-Ko and Felder are rated at max CFM and Nominal and nominal also has a stated static pressure. What that means is with that much resistance to airflow in your duct, filter, and machine port, you will get that CFM. We modeled Rick's planer last night with Bill Pentz's spreadsheet and there is about 8-8.5 in w.g. of static pressure (resistance to flow). So you can get a close estimate of how much CFM each machine would pull because they are rated at about that static pressure.

Oneida has a popper fan curve on their website. At 8.4 in w.g. of static pressure the Oneida Smart 5HP High Vacuum collector will move 1500 cfm. At 10" it will move about 1300 cfm. The Oneida is a lot cheaper than the Euro units but it's also 85 db versus 72-75 for the Euro units.

[Chris Parks]

Compared to a cyclone, I would suggest noise would be the #1 ... And air quality would be #2. IF I where to buy a German DC again, Filter cleaning would be my biggest, #1 consideration .. Its a real pet peeve with the Felder for me .

Noise levels are a good point but the difference in price would buy a lot of sound proofing that's for sure. I would back a Clearvue v's either Felder or Alko as far as return air quality goes and if it is not better it would be their equal and venting to the atmosphere a CV cyclone would be better than any return through filters system. If a workshop is short on floor space a cyclone will win every time as well, without filters a cyclone can be installed within a single square metre.

[Anthony Spotorno]

I have had an Oneida Cyclone for about 4 years now. It is their 3HP Dust Gorilla, my shop is about 1500sq ft and I have about 100' of 7" 24g steel ductwork. Ceiling is 10' high, with drops at all of the machines.

I have 9 drops at the moment, with equipment being shaper, 16" planner/jointer, tablesaw, 4' widebelt sander, 2' drum sander, bandsaws, belt/disk combo sander, lathe.

The cyclone for one is loud, very loud. I have to blow off the filter manually, which means taking it apart, moving outside and blowing it off with air.

I hate the drum, I do not have wheels, I guess I could get a set, but would have to raise the DC up for them. Single drum is unwieldy, nothing like a 55g drum mostly filled with dust to have to move around and empty.

I'm looking for auto filter clean with air, 2 bins on wheels and better airflow, I CANNOT vent outside the walls in my shop are poured concrete and I cannot drill large holes to vent, so need a good system that recirculates the air. Additionally, I live in FL and my shop is A/C. Could not imagine keeping the shop cool with that much volume of air venting outside.

The cyclone emits dust, I assume it is between the gaskets, filter, etc but all around the cyclone I get a film of light dust.

Lastly, money is not really an issue, I'm not a pro woodworker, this is my hobby but now that I'm retired it almost feels like a second day job but without the stress

[Andy Giddings]

Joe, the Excel table suggests that Felder are doing something really wrong with their DCs compared to Al-Ko - if I compare the nominal flows in CFM for the Al-Ko 200 to the Felder 200 I get approx 100% better performance with a motor HP half the size? I realize the Static Pressure on the Felder is a bit higher but that's some difference. Either Al-Ko have some magic inside their DC or the HP ratings are seriously mis-stated by the manufacturers

[Joe Jensen]

I have had an Oneida Cyclone for about 4 years now. It is their 3HP Dust Gorilla, my shop is about 1500sq ft and I have about 100' of 7" 24g steel ductwork. Ceiling is 10' high, with drops at all of the machines.

I have 9 drops at the moment, with equipment being shaper, 16" planner/jointer, tablesaw, 4' widebelt sander, 2' drum sander, bandsaws, belt/disk combo sander, lathe.

The cyclone for one is loud, very loud. I have to blow off the filter manually, which means taking it apart, moving outside and blowing it off with air.

I hate the drum, I do not have wheels, I guess I could get a set, but would have to raise the DC up for them. Single drum is unwieldy, nothing like a 55g drum mostly filled with dust to have to move around and empty.

I'm looking for auto filter clean with air, 2 bins on wheels and better airflow, I CANNOT vent outside the walls in my shop are poured concrete and I cannot drill large holes to vent, so need a good system that recirculates the air. Additionally, I live in FL and my shop is A/C. Could not imagine keeping the shop cool with that much volume of air venting outside.

The cyclone emits dust, I assume it is between the gaskets, filter, etc but all around the cyclone I get a film of light dust.

Lastly, money is not really an issue, I'm not a pro woodworker, this is my hobby but now that I'm retired it almost feels like a second day job but without the stress

Lots of us in the same position.

Have you considered attending the AWFS show in Las Vegas? You will see Al-Ko and Felder units there and running. Rick and I looked closely at both in past shows and the Al-ko IMHO are better engineered and better finished. I am considering taking a small test pipe with anemometer to measure the airflow of each unit. IM me for a paper on dust collection if you are interested,

[Rick Fisher]

Andy .. My Felder 160 has good suction.. but only when the filter is clean. Cleaning the filter is a terrible job. The built in cleaner is highly mediocre. Now my machine is 9 years old .. I've looked at the newer Felder RL series, but would want better.

I have a new planer which can remove material faster than the RL-160 can keep up .. Through 6" Spiral lock pipe, I can literally clog the system whenever I want now by removing material too quickly ..

I may get a new DC in the future, I designed my shop however around the RL-160 and only have about 9'6 ceiling height where the DC sits.. Most Cyclones which would be comparable to an ALKO 200 are way too tall.. I have a sizzor truss roof in my shop.. A 7.5 HP cylcone or 10HP cyclone is about 11 feet tall.. So I would have to move it into the center of the shop .. closer to me .. Its already way louder than the ALKO .. Moving a MUCH louder DC really close to me isn't appealing ..

If money isn't an issue.. Buy the ALKO .. Its the BMW or the Bentley of Dust collectors .. Come to the AWFS in July in Vegas .. Martin will have one running.. probably a 250 .. You can stand next to it and talk to people while its running.

[Chris Parks]

I don't know the flow figures of the ALKO but I bet a CV Max would do the same job and it will go under a 9 foot ceiling no problems at all. The sound proofing on my CV1800 allows me to run it at night so it is not noisy in itself but nothing can be done about the noise from the air flowing through the machines. A CV Max running at 65hz via a VFD flows a huge amount of air, more than any single duct can supply from the machines we as hobbyists use and that is the important part. Our machines as a rule do not flow enough air to supply a DE that can pull any more air than the machine can supply. I used to advise customers to have an overhead inlet permanently open to scrub the air while working with machines because the Max will easily support two ducts and at 65hz three is possible. You could put two Maxes in and have change from one ALKO machine for that matter.

[Andy Giddings]

Andy .. My Felder 160 has good suction.. but only when the filter is clean. Cleaning the filter is a terrible job. The built in cleaner is highly mediocre. Now my machine is 9 years old .. I've looked at the newer Felder RL series, but would want better.

I have a new planer which can remove material faster than the RL-160 can keep up .. Through 6" Spiral lock pipe, I can literally clog the system whenever I want now by removing material too quickly ..

I may get a new DC in the future, I designed my shop however around the RL-160 and only have about 9'6 ceiling height where the DC sits.. Most Cyclones which would be comparable to an ALKO 200 are way too tall.. I have a sizzor truss roof in my shop.. A 7.5 HP cylcone or 10HP cyclone is about 11 feet tall.. So I would have to move it into the center of the shop .. closer to me .. Its already way louder than the ALKO .. Moving a MUCH louder DC really close to me isn't appealing ..

If money isn't an issue.. Buy the ALKO .. Its the BMW or the Bentley of Dust collectors .. Come to the AWFS in July in Vegas .. Martin will have one running.. probably a 250 .. You can stand next to it and talk to people while its running.

Rick, I'm sure the Al-Ko is a great DC - I was just amazed at the large performance gap between it and the Felder which suggests Felder really needs to make some improvements. And I certainly understand the comment about cleaning the Felder