Contributor
Would love to see photos of the gazebo,Larry. Interesting point about the soak removing the Titebond 3. But I suspect that the stuff needs a certain full cure time. Lot of testing has to go in to legally saying "waterproof". But since tannin can slow down full cure of Titebond the rescorcinal was a great tried and proven choice.
Contributor
I wouldn't use six10 by itself. You really need to prime the wood with neat resin/hardener first.Originally Posted by Brad Shipton
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Member
My experience is this - years ago I built the NYW outdoor planters and benches. To do that, I bought cedar 2x4s and x6s from HD. I did what I had to do with laminating them and otherwise cutting them to size to get the dimensions needed for the project. I used gorilla glue for about 1/2 of the parts and joints and titebond 2 for the other 1/2. After many years of living outdoors they didn't fail through any fault of the adhesives used. Eventually the cedar in the planters began to rot. Initially I used a Sikkens Cetol product to finish the benches and latex paint for the planters. I've rebuilt the planters with my own modification of Norm's design to allow assembly using Dominoes. At that time I chose to use the Rot Doctor product to try to seal the cedar, especially on the ends against water. Following that, I used latex primer and paint on the planters. The benches are the same ones I started with. Except now I stripped and refinished them with Epifanes clear gloss varnish. I think the Epifanes holds up better than the Sikkens Cetol.
Bottom line - I think gorilla glue or ordinary Titebond 2 are completely up to the task of outdoor use. My qualifier is this - in the woods I've used those adhesives in. Cedar & redwood. There's a little bit of redwood in the replacement planter boxes.
[OP]
Contributor
Well, after reading all these replies (and learning a lot), although I tempted to use my existing TB3, with $600 worth of wood I ordered West 610 epoxy. Thanks for all the insight, looks like a couple of options in reality. Randy
[OP]
Contributor
OK, one more Q. I'm end butting the 8 perimeter pieces and going to join with epoxied splines. The oak perimeter pieces are 13/16" thick. How thick should I make my splines? I was thinking 3/8" or is 1/4" better? 1/4" seems a little too weak to me, the splines will be 1 1/2" wide. Randy
Contributor
You already may know this Randall, but make your splines with the grain running across the joint, not with it. 3/8" does not leave much on either side, I would opt for 1/4" myself.
Member
1/4"
But just for fun and because I have the bit for doing it, I might try making a finger joint. But that's just me.
[OP]
Contributor
After doing some test cuts, settled on 5/16" (more than 1/4 and less than 3/8). Took lots of tweaking to get it exactly centered...as I will have to turn over each piece to cut in from the pointed end to have no tearout on the outside part that will be seen. Randy
[OP]
Contributor
Ok, one more question to those who recommended West Systems 610 epoxy. I bought two tubes of the stuff. I see that it mixes in the nozzle so its premixed when it comes out the end. This also tells me the mixing nozzle is a one time shot as the mixed epoxy will harden in the nozzle. So I'm guessing that you don't use the nozzle and just dispense a little bit at a time and mix and use? Randy
Member
Randy, the nozzles are not reusable from session to session for the reason that you stated. I remove and discard the used nozzle at the end of a session and replace the small divided plug into the end of the cartridge and then replace the threaded "nut" that holds it secure. Make sure the plug goes into the correct 1/2 of the cartridge tip so you don't mix hardener with resin. One nozzle comes with each tube and i buy extra bags of nozzles for multiple session use of the same cartridge. Without cross contaminating hardener and resin, the cartridge will have an indefinite shelf life. The 610 product is spendy but i like it. I'm a big fan of West System products and have used it for years. I also believe in wetting out the surfaces with conventional West System epoxy before applying 610.
Member
Buy extra mixing tips and be careful not to get hardener on the resin where it exits the tube. You can re-install the end cover after using and then install a new tip whenever you need to mix more. The epoxy does cyrstallize somewhat after many many months, so do not buy a ton extra.
Contributor
I have used WEST system epoxy professionally for ~40 years and have never once seen the need to use six10. It is extremely expensive and does an inferior job, by itself.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Member
I didn't think the price of the mixing tips was worth it. I just weigh the epoxy on a pretty decent postal scale. I also have the metered pumps for West epoxies which pump out way more epoxy than I ever use. I think they're accurate but I just pump out what I need which is 1/4th-ish of a full pump stroke.
Edit: If you really wanted to you could soak the tips in lacquer thinner and use pipe cleaners to clean them out. That would be a good option if your time is worthless.
[OP]
Contributor
Ok, one last Q on epoxy. I have started to use the two tubes I bought. I don't use the mixing tip, just squirt into a cleaned out yogurt cup and mix and spread. I have tried to find the answer on u tube and all over the place, no luck. So my Q is, am I supposed to brush the epoxy on both pieces of wood before bonding or will just one do if he layer is thick enough? (I did learn not to over clamp in my research.)
Contributor
You are supposed to saturate both surfaces, first, with WEST epoxy resin/hardener mix, and then apply the thickened epoxy glue, in this case six10.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
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