Veneered raised panels, who knew?

[johnny means]

So, I demoed some builders grade cabinets today. I know I'm not the only one who thought all those cheap red oak cabinets had solid doors.
I'll definitely be filing this technique away for future use.

[Jerry Miner]

Right. Those "oak" doors are not oak--the 'oak" is RTF. The giveaway is the lack of endgrain at the top/bottom cuts.

[Victor Robinson]

Hmmm, makes me realize I should take a closer look at my parents' kitchen cabinets, which I had planned to demo and salvage what I thought would be a bunch of red oak from. Maybe repurposing the cabinets would be smarter if they are indeed this.

How do they veneer the raised panels efficiently? Seems it wouldn't be worth the cost-savings and effort for a smaller shop?

[Jerry Miner]

It's not even wood veneer-- it's "rigid thermo-foil" (RTF)-- a pvc film with pretty realistic texture and "woodgrain" applied under heat and pressure in a production shop-- and sold to many cabinet shops, large and small.

[johnny means]

Nah, this is definitely real wood veneer. I like the idea for more expensive veneers, maybe matched burl panels.

[Jerry Miner]

Nah, this is definitely real wood veneer. I like the idea for more expensive veneers, maybe matched burl panels.

I don't think so, Johnny. Look closer. It's a real good fake. It has fooled me, too-- but wood veneer, IME, will not stretch around corners like that. Try burning it--I bet it will melt like plastic.

[Jamie Buxton]

Nah, this is definitely real wood veneer. I like the idea for more expensive veneers, maybe matched burl panels.

I tried to do something like that with real wood veneer, years ago. I could not get it to work. The veneer crumpled as it went over the corner where the two bevels come together. When something like this is done with thermofoil, the trick is the thermo part of the name. The plastic foil is heated to the point that it will stretch to get over corners.

[John K Jordan]

So, I demoed some builders grade cabinets today. I know I'm not the only one who thought all those cheap red oak cabinets had solid doors.
I'll definitely be filing this technique away for future use.

I ran into this just recently and was surprised - never saw that before!

I'm doing an inventiory of a building full of wood and milled components from a big cabinet company that closed. There were many pallets of these "veneer over MDF" door panels in a variety of "wood" species and sizes. They sure looked like wood veneer but I was puzzled how it could possibly have been applied without buckling and cracking.

The RTF would explain that! I'll get one and examine it closer, maybe peel it apart. (Another question is what in the world are we going to do with many thousands of these panels?!!)

I had to ask Sir Google about RTF and found this: "New Cabinet Doors: What Is RTF, and Why Should We Care?"
http://www.refacingcabinet.com/home-...d-we-care.html

JKJ

[Marty Schlosser]

It is possible to veneer such pieces... but the skills and experience necessary to pull it off are daunting for most of us. I was quite amazed at what could be done after seeing how it can be done.

Here's the video that explains it:https://www.vacupress.com/product/working-in-a-vacuum/

[Mark Wooden]

I've seen doors like that recently, I noticed the veneer was pretty thin and that all edges were dull, rounded over and lacking definition.
I've veneered raised panels by banding substrate, veneering over all and then cutting the hips on a shaper. If planned properly you'll only be covering 1/16" of the solid banding, so any telegraphing over time will be negligible. And yes, at the top and bottom of the panels the banding grain was parallel to the veneer grain. We laid up the panels this way to give the appearance of solid burl panels and another time with English brown oak (which was a particular joy to three of us with allergies ;-) )

[Warren Lake]

I dont see how veneer can work you have two different angles coming together on each corner and almost a section of veneer would have to be removed and lined up. Ive done what Mark says in the past and it works well, sure i had more overlap on the solid more like 1/8" and no issues with it telegraphing. No more sanding end grain in that case as the raise is in long grain. Nothing positive about thermal foil stuff. At a speaker company years ago they were making themafoil doors between cabinets for a big box store, its how the big get bigger. I think its junk, have seen it in places before years after when its failing., maybe it all doesnt do it still see it as the devil.

[Brad Shipton]

Here is a video from Quality Vak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hurkix0Xcvg I am not sure it is very practical, nor do we see a close up of the corners in question.

[Mel Fulks]

There is a history of panels with the edges gilded or painted ,I like that better

[Warren Lake]

thanks Brad thats a new one on me, ive done vacuum bag up to some high end speaker cabinets that I veneered in 3/4 MDF as they were not repairable as supplied. Aggree you cant see the corners as it went I thought there would be a portion of folded veneer sticking up that you slice off. Also apparent is the panel raise is modified to work in the process favour, if I have a drop of .100 or whatever less than that it wont happen, also where the panels fits into the tongue normally it runs straight for some amount guess that is more doable. would be nice to see it clear and close up, then how does it do in the real world years later.

Mel didnt quite get what you mean but would like to understand. im interested in the history of things especially since more time was put into things in the past. Do you mean the raised portion they paint to match the rest of the panel or?

[Mel Fulks]

Yo Warren, seen them with the cut down ,thinned perimeter painted .sometines the thick panel field is stained and sometimes painted solid contrasting color or , faux and exagerated graining.