15-20K for shop overhaul. Need ideas and what would you buy?

[David T gray]

your going to want a edge sander. i wouldn't waste money on drum sander . i wouldn't get the festool router i would buy 2 1617EVSPK cpo has these $50 off atm. buy a deros sander and use mirka sandpaper so much better then festool stuff costs a lot more but its worth. if i were you i would spend maybe half of what u have and buy tools you need when you need them. buy the bigger domino buy the adapter from https://www.senecawoodworking.com/collections/all and use the smaller bits with it. i would buy from grizzly you can get 2-3x the mechine from them for the same price as a powermatic. Grizzly G0609X is less then the powermatic and 30% bigger. do you really need a track saw ? i never use mine unless im mobile.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I think if your objective is to make cabinets, built-ins, etc for your home then I think your setup now is pretty close to what you "really" need. A good compressor and nail guns would be high on my list for cabinet making and built-ins.
If WW is your life-long passion, and your WW future is limitless, then I would buy the biggest and best equipment that you can afford. I would by the best Euro machines and a few old American iron machines.

[Keith Westfall]

20 x 24?? You are going to be packed in pretty tight! Make sure you have wheels on everything. Mine is about the same size and I',m always short of room, and don't have any the big iron that has been suggested.

Don't forget the benches (building and working space) they take some room too.

Other than that, I am jealous!!

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Joshua, I would sell the jointer, planer, belt sander, tablesaw and mitre saw.

I would buy a 12" or 16" combination jointer/planer and a sliding saw/shaper combination with scoring saw and stock feeder.

You'll have far better capabilities, capacities and features, as well as more room............Regards, Rod.

[Brian W Evans]

Joshua,

Congratulations on an exciting project! My recommendations would be:

Remember that your shop is as much a tool as anything else. Insulate, heat, cool, light, run electrical and dust collection. Buy tools as you can but doing these things later will be painful.

You have a relatively small space, so I will echo Rod's suggestion and get a combo machine. A Minimax CU300 will eat a lot of your budget but you'll get a sliding table saw that can handle full sheets of ply (ditch the table saw and track saw), do very accurate and repeatable crosscuts and angle cuts (ditch the SCMS), joint 16", plane 16" (ditch the stand-alone planer), and shape (probably still need a router table). All of this will be in one location (easier for dust collection and more room for other stuff). I wouldn't go for a cheaper combo machine, but I have heard very good things about Hammer machines that cost less, so YMMV.

I will echo David's recommendation for the Domino 700 with the Seneca adapters. I have this setup and use it all the time. You need a good dust extractor for this, and nothing is better than the Festool with an Oneida Dust Deputy mounted on it (they make one especially for this purpose).

Definitely get a good bandsaw. I don't have the Laguna but they certainly have a good reputation for bandsaws. Maybe you could get a deal if you ordered a combo machine and bandsaw from Hammer/Felder or Minimax?

I think these things, together with your dust collection, probably puts you over your budget. These are what I would consider to be my "core" tools, however. The other things can be purchased later.

A few recommendations for other things, if you decide you want them right away:

I have a Benchdog cast iron router table and I absolutely love it. It will last forever and never sag, dent, or chip. I use the Woodpeckers PRL-V2 lift and Superfence, which I also love. As recommended earlier, get the PC7518 router for whatever table/lift you end up with.

A compressor and nail guns are especially handy. You can get a cheap pancake compressor and a couple of cheap guns for a few hundred at the big box stores, but better ones are still relatively cheap. I have a Rolair VT25BIG portable compressor that is a huge step up from the PC pancake it replaced, but wasn't very expensive.

A drill press is really nice to have. I got a used Craftsman years ago that is adequate. Others seem to rely on theirs more and would suggest something more expensive, but I see lots of drill presses on Craigslist where I live. $200 should get you something decent.

I have a drum sander (Supermax 19-38) that I like very much but don't "need". I wouldn't get one right away.

Best of luck!

-Brian

[Darcy Warner]

I would add on.

[Clint Baxter]

Lots of good advice already. I think the European combo machine would be the preferred option as well. Maybe upgrade the bandsaw to a Hammer N4400 while you're at it.

One thing not mentioned is your choice of sander, (ETS 150). I highly recommend spending the difference and getting the ETS EC 150. Since getting mine, I rarely, if ever, use my ETS 150. I got my EC with a 5mm orbit, while my older ETS 150 has the 3mm orbit, so it may get used if I ever run into swirl marks from the ETS EC 150/5. I haven't had this happen yet, for what it's worth.

Good on luck on whatever you decide.

Clint

[Art Mann]

I have an equipment set that is only slightly larger than what you are proposing and it is housed in a 24 X 28 shop. I have another area for material storage. It is waaay too crowded. I am building a new 24 X 36 shop and my initial planning suggests it is just barely large enough. I recommend you buy the most needed tools first and then see where you stand. A jointer/planer combo machine is a good space saver. If you don't have room to work then the best tools in the world won't do you much good.

Once upon a time, I had a strategy to keep all my big tools on wheels and roll them out as needed. I wasted so much time shuffling equipment and arranging dust collection that I had a hard time getting any real work done. Of necessity, I sold several tools I would have liked to have kept and made the rest of them stationary.

[rudy de haas]

On reading your list I was struck by several of things others have commented on (sander, option for planer/jointer combo) and by:

1 - that's pretty expensive stuff. A package deal from grizzly (assuming you are in the U.S. ) would probably get you more for much less; and,

2 - you may want to consider a mid range shaper. These are harder to work with than tabled routers; but much better for work with very hard woods, repetitive work, and work with large cutting heads. Cutters are very expensive relative to routers and the whole thing comes across as gross overkill if you want to make a small number of things - but there are jobs (like making ceiling molding) for which there really aren't many practical alternatives if you want to do it yourself. This is, I think, something you have to experience to understand because the overlap with routers is large enough to confuse the issue. Bottom line: if you can afford it and don't have shaper experience, find someone with the tool who can let you find the differences for yourself and then decide.

[Erik Loza]

....I will have a 24x20 space to use as my workshop. I can likely spend up to 20K for the overhaul...

Watch this series of videos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpi1iSiR8ZE

...then call and talk to Sam Blasco (member here). I cannot tell you how many customers I had that were in your exact same shoes, bought a Minimax combo, then never looked back. Best of luck with your search.

Erik

[Joshua Bass]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. It seems unanimous to ditch the drum sander. Is there any particular reason why? It seems useful for many reasons, although the extra space could be more of a concern.

[James Zhu]

If you have space, this is a very good deal.

http://macsblogboard.blogspot.ca/p/new-2014.html

[Andy Giddings]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. It seems unanimous to ditch the drum sander. Is there any particular reason why? It seems useful for many reasons, although the extra space could be more of a concern.

I think this was explained in the 2nd post on this thread - they aren't as effective as a wide belt and in terms of their utility for building cabinets - a low priority compared to everything else you had listed, same as the SCMS

[Martin Wasner]

I would add on.

Golf clap.

[Jim Dwight]

20x24 is pretty good sized but if you set up a sliding table saw with capacity to cut 8 foot sheets, it will chew up all but a few feet around the shop. Not permanently but when you are cutting plywood, other machines will have to be against the walls. Should be doable.

I prefer a small capacity table saw 24-36 inches, with a track saw. That takes up much less floor space and I have less, 14x24. You have to learn to use a track saw, I needed something to position the track to get consistent results - marking and cutting wasn't accurate enough. But when you get the technique down, it is very accurate and involves a lot less lifting of sheet goods.

I use 4 routers most of the time. One in my router table, two mid sized hand held (PC but Bosch is reviewed well and there are others), and a Bosch colt. I would not want less routers. It is handy to change routers instead of changing bits. The other routers are kind of big to put a small chamfer or roundover on a project, the colt is great for that. But it will not handle the bigger bits. I use a router in a special base for my DeWalt track saw track to cut long dados. It works great. Festool offers a similar setup. It's a good way to make dados for cabinets.

I have always purchased tools based upon what I wanted to do. The project and the cutting/joining details. You may have to build some shop cabinets or something to see what you like. You can pocket screw cabinets, use through screws, use dados with either, just glue and clamp them, glue and gun nail them together, or even use dovetails (although that seems excessive for the carcase to me). You can use a face frame or not. You can make your own doors or buy them. I made a whole kitchen many years ago using 3/4 oak veneer plywood from the big box store and solid oak raised panel doors. I did the doors on my router table. I used shallow dados with through screws that were plugged. We like them but I am sure not everybody would. I would probably not use rotary cut veneer at this point but otherwise I think they were fine cabinets. For time reasons, I am buying them for the current remodel, however.

If you don't already have enough tools, you soon will have to make cabinets. You might want more to do certain things but you can start with what you have, I think.

My last two shops have had a long table for my RAS and CMS (12 inch Hitachi) with flip stops and storage underneith. It would be a good shop project. My latest one is about 30 inches high with a 3.5 inch base and the saws are shimmed up to 38 inches, my preferred height. Where the saws aren't, I have a Paulk style 7 inch thick surface where the flip stops are. I like crosscutting against a stop so I like doing it on this long table. Especially for something like cabinets, having a bunch of stops set up you can flip out of the way when making another cut can save a bunch of measuring and improve results. I have a couple dozen drawers of various sizes for smaller tool storage.