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Thread: 94 cabinet door rails to tenon ~ both ends!

  1. #1
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    94 cabinet door rails to tenon ~ both ends!

    Geez - just the thought it of doing that one piece a time - all the loading on the sled - clamping down -running them through the shaper - unclamping - end for ending - doing it again - 188 times. Too manyyyyyyyyyy .

    All these being 3/4" thick x 4-1/2" wide (+ 1/2" for finish dimensioning) red birch - most in the 6" to 10" length but some as short as 3-1/8" and some as long as 18" made me realize I had to try something.

    Having recently acquired an old 1/4 hp power feeder from Sawmill Creeker, Larry Edgerton - this, a very generous GIFT from Larry - Thank you very - very much Larry - the little light bulb in my head turned on. The power feeder had made the running of the stiles so safe and accurate and fast that I decided it was worth doing a test run (or 3) of setting up a sled to hold 4 rails at a time and power feed those past the shaper cutter.

    Worked beautifully!

    Of course I still needed to run it all through 47 times but I managed all the parts from 1:30 in the afternoon to before 5PM including a 20 minute coffee break. Most importantly all the variables (and inevitable inaccuracy) of doing this one at a time, fed by hand, was eliminated.

    Just sharing for anyone else contemplating a big run of cabinet door rails.

    Still shots available if anyone is interested. A bit boring but perhaps informative.

    Cheers, Sam
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  2. #2
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    We need to see pictures. It is difficult to visualize.
    Obviously there is cross grain.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 06-12-2017 at 11:03 AM.

  3. #3
    Wouldn't work the way I do doors, we remove a 1/16" of material on each end when coping to square and relive tear out.

    Pretty routinely we do jobs with ~100 doors and another ~100 paneled drawer fronts. Staring at a pile of parts needing 800 copes and knowing you're going to be making sweet sweet love to a shaper for the next two hours is a little demoralizing.

    I'm looking for dedicated and automatic coper, (other than a shaper), to speed things up. It'll better than halve the machining time plus it will take employee abuse of tooling out of the equation.

  4. #4
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    Photos here as requested.

    1st the old sled. i used this set up for the last 30 + doors. Each rail x 2 ends. Very tedious and though I made up a 1/2 dozen trial runs and had achieved near perfection with those, it was inevitable that feeding these by hand would give mixed "near" results. Didn't help that I had run the stiles by hand too. The power feeder wasn't ready for action as I was waiting new wheels. You can see there was lots of clamping and hold downs but ...

    1st-sled.jpg Old-sled-fully-loaded.jpg

    Next time around - the 2nd batch of 47 doors - I had to do better. Yes I know that a production shop doesn't do things this way but I typically do not operate a production shop. A big kitchen for me might have a couple of dozen doors and panels and even those jobs, not so often that in my recent iteration as a cabinet maker/furniture builder I ever realized the need for a shaper. I offer this as a potential procedure for Creekers like me who do not often run batches of parts.

    It helped that the rails are as wide as they are. 4-1/2" is a pretty stable width compared to 2-1/4". This second time, as in the first case, ALL my parts were at the same rough width and all were cut precisely square and to the finished length, including for the length of the tenons, of course. The shaper barely skimmed a bit of length off the rails and that was consistent throughout.

    ALSO - each time I realized it was safer and more exact to load the sled OFF THE SHAPER TABLE. To that end I set up a rigid straight edge to which I push the sled tight and load my rail (1st run by hand). The second run, with the power feeder, I would clamp my sled to the straight edge as I loaded the first ends of a given size. I then pushed up against my 4 rails another straight edge which was screwed to the sled. This was my moving FENCE. Once the first batch of any size was loaded it was a simple matter to simply end for end or add new parts because now the straight edged fastened to my sled, aka, THE FENCE, was the control. The straight edge on the bench was a critical piece of my set up though. Here are photos that should illustrate that:

    In the 1st photo the piece with the brass screw showing is my bench straight edge. You can see that I have 4 rails loaded (and sacrificial pieces at both ends). The piece with the silver screws is an extra keeper attached to THE FENCE - just a precaution.

    2nd photo shows the loaded sled being fed through the shaper by the power feeder. The wheels of the power feeder were always riding on the rails themselves - even the 3-1/8" pieces - so making certain that they did not move in any orientation on the sled was essential.

    Loading-the-sled.jpg Through-the-shaper.jpg

    I started with my short parts and as the longer rails were processed I kept moving my sled FENCE - held down with screws - and I added a more substantial hold down across the width of the loaded parts (still securely fastened to my FENCE once all that stuff could clear the shaper).

    Here are photos showing the finished product:

    Even with the end grain I had consistently smooth results. Feeder as slow as it could go and the shaper operating at 8000. You can see the bit of tear out on the outboard edge of the rail in photo 1. This will cut off when I size the doors. Taking care to load the sled so that the final piece against the sacrificial stop was always outboard edge to the stop was key. Also loading in such a way so that when I end for ended my parts I still had an outboard edge to go against that stop. Had to keep my wits the whole time.

    The 2nd photo here shows one piece pulled out of the sled after the final pass of it and its brothers.

    Typical-End-grain-II.jpg Example-of-group.jpg

    OK - I can't add more. Sorry if this is more than you want to or care to read. Just trying to be thorough with my description. I did say it would be boring, though informative for those contemplating such an operation. Now those of you who have done this a hundred times - please share. Will make the next time even easier.

    In conclusion - This turned out to be a very stress free, efficient, accurate and safe procedure with excellent results. I can't imagine why not doing it this way even when I only need to run parts for a 1/2 dozen doors. I taught myself something.

    Enjoy - Sam
    Last edited by Sam Murdoch; 06-12-2017 at 5:58 PM.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  5. #5
    tenoner, makes life easy.

  6. #6
    Since you asked...if all rail stock is at least 5 and 1/2 inches wide they can be coped face down fed by feeder ,then ripped before sticking cut. No sled is the method I like and find easiest. And if same machine will be used for sticking no vertical machine height adjustment is needed. But you might need a dedicated shim under sticking set. Never seen a case where it was neccesary to LOWER spindle for sticking cut. But I'm in the minority ,and your way will work fine.......Neglected to say my way requires a rub collar
    Last edited by Mel Fulks; 06-12-2017 at 10:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Think I like the method Mel lays out, just don't rip your rails down before coping. I use my Freud router bits in my shaper to make door frames, they have a rub collar built in. Usually set the shaper up to make the styles, and the router table to make cope cut. This sounds much easier.

  8. #8
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    Are you making a bunch of narrow doors or are you using the short rails as vertical members in drawer frames?
    -- Jim

    Use the right tool for the job.

  9. #9
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    As much as anything this is a thread about working with what you've got. In this case - no tenoner, no router table, no 5-1/2" wide stock.

    I haven't seen or built cabinet doors (before now) with rails and stiles at 4-1/2" wide but it seems that one could prep two sides of narrower rails onto one wider board and run those ends as Mel suggests. Rip them to size after.

    James - with 4-1/2" stiles even the 3 -1/8" long rails give a 12"+ wide door. Only 8 of those most are in the 14" to 24" range.

    Yes, there are certainly other ways to do this work. Just glad to have discovered the option of using a power feeder with a sled. BTW - I was holding the sled as it fed past the cutters - actually pushing it against the fence. No reason to stand by idle while the power feeder did the work. Seemed appropriate to keep two hands on the procedure.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  10. #10
    I don't see what the big deal is in regard to coping that many rails. Doing one at a time on a sled I would have been done in less time than you spent with the method described. A bit tedious,but that's why they call it work.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    I don't see what the big deal is in regard to coping that many rails. Doing one at a time on a sled I would have been done in less time than you spent with the method described. A bit tedious,but that's why they call it work.
    Based on my experience with the first 31 doors of this group my second sled/feeder method was very fast - 188 copes in 3 hours - fast enough anyway. Less time than needed to write and illustrate these posts . Once I had my system tweaked it was very easy and efficient. No comparison. This is why I shared. I suppose if you have a perfect store bought sled with all the right quick release clamps etc., you would be more efficient than I with my original home made set up but the ganged up sled and the power feeder was a great combo. I am not one to grumble about "work" I just prefer to be efficient, safe, and with the best results. Wasn't intending a debate on the merits - just sharing one man's experience. To each his own.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  12. #12
    In our shop any operation that can be feeder run is a winner hands down. Firm hold down to the table, speed, no operator error, accuracy and cut quality, operator fatigue. Sounds like you found a good system that works for you. You can still take a full cleanup cut with a sled using an adjustable back fence. Agreed though that hundred-plus door jobs are daunting to say the least.

  13. #13
    I think Aigner Contermax (https://www.werkzeuge-fuchs.de/en/mi...timber-section) is probably the best jig for coping, easier and faster than any other coping jigs in the market. For narrow stock, you could do multiple pieces in one pass. Check the following video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmz_cpHsH0&t=455s

  14. #14
    Sam,

    Thanks for sharing your method. I did not mean to be negative. I use a simple shop-made sled with a destaco clamp and fence-mounted hold-down, guided by the miter gauge groove, with a fresh backer for each cut, clamped between the workpiece and backup fence. About 30 seconds per piece. I have used a powerfed sled for long tenon cheeks cut with saw blades on a shaper, mostly because of the difficulty of guarding the blades, so I recognize the usefulness of the technique..

    Another approach to running copes on multiple rails is shown in post #5 in this thread- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tenoning-table. Note the belt on the powerfeed in the background for running short pieces. The poster, J.R. Rutter, runs a commercial door shop, so I imagine he has experimented with a few different methods.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    I don't see what the big deal is in regard to coping that many rails. Doing one at a time on a sled I would have been done in less time than you spent with the method described. A bit tedious,but that's why they call it work.

    I figure 3-4 seconds per cope with our setup. You gotta hustle to make that pace though.

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