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Thread: Cyclone surprises

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
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    10,304

    Cyclone surprises

    I upgraded to a cyclone (a Woodsucker II) a few months ago. As I expected, it collects chips very well. However, it does a couple of things I didn't expect...

    Heat
    If I run the cyclone for a couple hours, the shop temperature goes up 10-15 degrees. I was initially surprised; none of the other machines in my shop have that effect. The reason that the cyclone does it is that the device is designed to run the motor near its rated horsepower 100% of the time. Machines like saws run at rated horsepower only when they're ripping thick hardwood at a high feed rate. For all the rest of the times, they're practically idling. My 2-hp cyclone is drawing about 11 amps from 230 volts, which amounts to 2500 watts. A plug-in electric space heater is good for only 1500 watts or so. That is, this cyclone is putting substantially more heat into the shop than an electric space heater. Cyclones with larger motors will do even more heating.

    Better ripping on the table saw!
    With my new big cyclone, I finally hooked it up to my table saw. I refuse to deal with an overarm dust pickup, so I knew the cyclone would collect maybe 80% of the sawdust. However, I decided I ought to hook it up anyway. As it happens, it may collect something more like 90%. At any rate, I built two pieces of furniture with cherry, and noticed I had no burning. That led me to examine the quality of cut as I rip lumber. I do that by holding the cut up to a glancing light and looking at the teeth marks along the face. With the cyclone running, there is noticeably finer marking along the ripped face. My theory is that the teeth marks are there because the blade deflects sideways during a cut. Perhaps it is sawdust jammed in the kerf which is doing the deflection. With the cyclone greatly reducing the density of the sawdust cloud under the saw, perhaps there's less sawdust in the kerf, less deflection, and better cutting. Even if that's not the real explanation, the effect sure is nice.

    Jamie

  2. #2
    Very interesting! With winter coming on the heat is a good thing, but what about summer? Is the DC unit enclosed?

    Smaller blade marks are always good....that one will benefit you in the long run.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Anaheim, California
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    6,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton
    At any rate, I built two pieces of furniture with cherry, and noticed I had no burning. That led me to examine the quality of cut as I rip lumber. I do that by holding the cut up to a glancing light and looking at the teeth marks along the face. With the cyclone running, there is noticeably finer marking along the ripped face. My theory is that the teeth marks are there because the blade deflects sideways during a cut. Perhaps it is sawdust jammed in the kerf which is doing the deflection. With the cyclone greatly reducing the density of the sawdust cloud under the saw, perhaps there's less sawdust in the kerf, less deflection, and better cutting. Even if that's not the real explanation, the effect sure is nice.
    Off-the-wall idea/question: how much of the burn/saw marks on the edges of ripped material is actually sawdust "welded" to the cut edge by the heat of the blade?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Forest Hill, Maryland, USA
    Posts
    165

    It's not just the motor!

    I suspect that your motor heating up is not the only culprit raising the temp in your shop. I'd have to dig out some old textbooks to prove the exact quatities, but it goes without saying that moving a lot of air through ductwork and then beating it with a DC impeller is another source of your heat when you run the cyclone.

    Think about it, almost FREE heat!

    Good luck!

    Phil

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Spokane, Washington
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    Interesting indeed. What size dust port does your saw have?

    Dan
    Eternity is an awfully long time, especially toward the end.

    -Woody Allen-

    Critiques on works posted are always welcome

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    10,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Forman
    Interesting indeed. What size dust port does your saw have?

    Dan
    The ducting and the port are 6".


    Lee, maybe you're right. I can't think of a way to decide what it is.

    Kelly, the cyclone just sits in the shop. The shop is about 500 sq ft, with a 12' ceiling. In the summer, you'll find me working in shorts, no shirt, and bare feet.

  7. #7
    Too many surprises in the dust in my shop to go barefoot....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I live on the "West Side" of Phoenix near Avondale.
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    53

    Please wear shoes.

    I don't usually get involved in personal preference. I just need to point out that if you have a cement floor and you are going bare footed, your chances of being seriously electrocuted go up dramatically. The path to ground goes directly across your chest if you happen to touch the prong while inserting a plug. Wooden floors are a different matter. Please excuse my "barging" in like this, but you are facing real danger.

    Please don't take this the wrong way ok? I'm really just trying to help.
    Failure is not an option.

  9. #9
    That's only if the cement has a considerable moisture content right? Concrete does wick up moisture something fierce, I still can't believe they use concrete as a foundation for houses. But in Arizona or the like, could that actually happen?

  10. #10
    Kelly,

    I don't know, but I wouldn't take the chance!! I had a friend in high school get killed running a skill saw, in bare feet, in the basement. I never go in my shop in bear feet for the same reason you don't.

    Also, if I drop a chisel, I want it to hit leather!

    Now that said, I am assuming the post about bear feet was tounge in cheek
    Jeff Sudmeier

    "It's not the quality of the tool being used, it's the skills of the craftsman using the tool that really matter. Unfortunately, I don't have high quality in either"

  11. #11
    I agree with you there. I hate cement floors and no longer have any except the one on the front proch (and that one's gonna be torn out soon as I can do it). I wouldn't take the chance either.

  12. #12
    I don't mind cement floors, I would prefer wood in the shop, but alas it is a garage and the next owner probably won't want a wood floor!!

    It is just amazing that cement floors conduct electricity as well as they do! An electrician friend told me of a situation he had a few years back in a house he had re-wired. Whenever the owners would walk in the basement barefoot, they would get randomly shocked, in their feet!!

    Their laundry was down there, turns out the dryer had something wrong with it and was allowing stray current to the floor, shocking them.

    VERY STRANGE!
    Jeff Sudmeier

    "It's not the quality of the tool being used, it's the skills of the craftsman using the tool that really matter. Unfortunately, I don't have high quality in either"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Sudmeier
    Kelly,

    I don't know, but I wouldn't take the chance!! I had a friend in high school get killed running a skill saw, in bare feet, in the basement. I never go in my shop in bear feet for the same reason you don't.

    Also, if I drop a chisel, I want it to hit leather!

    Now that said, I am assuming the post about bear feet was tounge in cheek
    Bear feet?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Waterford, MI
    Posts
    4,673
    Jamie
    I was searching SMC for info on the Woodsucker and found your post. I'm currently researching the possibility of putting a cyclone unit overhead in the rafters of my garage shop. I'd planned to locate it within about an inch of the roof boards. I started looking a bit more closely at the Woodsucker as it appears to have one of the smallest vertical footprints of the cyclones I've looked at. Your post got me curious regarding the heat issue. Do you think I'm risking a fire hazard with the motor on a Woodsucker being an inch away from the roof boards? Increasing the ambient air temp 10-15 is a bonus that will cut down how much I'll have to use my propane heater in colder months, but do you think there's any hazard with what I have in mind?
    Use the fence Luke

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    West of Ft. Worth, TX
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    Doug, I have a similar "problem" with my Clear Vue, I'm about 2 inches from the roof sheathing. I'm going to install a powered roof vent close to exhaust heat from the "attic", actually too small to qualify for a crawl space, and in the winter it should provide for heat to escape without the fan running. If adequate ventilation already exists, then probably nothing else would be needed, maybe a small fan to circulate the air. In my case, there is no existing roof ventilation at all. Jim.

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