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Thread: plow planes

  1. #1
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    plow planes

    Looking for commentary on plow planes. I have a Record 405 and I only have used the 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" grooving irons. I have looked at all the other irons but not used any. I will probably be dead before LN releases their plow plane so I've been looking at the Lee Valley plow plane. Curious to know if anyone has experience uses the LV plane and the Stanley 45/46 or the Record equivalents or an old wooden one.
    They appear to be smaller than the Stanley/Record 45's and I would use it 99.999% to plow grooves. I'm not interested in using it for rabbets or dadoes.
    Side note - I saw a post that Lee Valley is coming out with a large plow plane too. Any truth to that?
    thanx
    ralph

  2. #2
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    If you search for Handworks, there is a recent thread where a member posted photos of the LV large plow. It was my impression he bought one there, but he could tell you for sure, and if so what he thinks of it.

    Jim Koepke has used the Stanley planes a lot. I do not have any experience with the Stanley or Records, but have an old Sargent that I have used a fair amount. I think several members have posted about their experience with the LV small plow as well.

    If you have specific questions, I am sure someone could help you out.

  3. #3
    Here's a thread where Rob Lee talks about their upcoming large plow. Coming out in the Fall.

    I have their small plow and love it. I'm sure Koepke will weigh in with his extensive knowledge of the Stanleys, and IIRC he also tested the LV small plow.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Boumenot View Post
    Looking for commentary on plow planes. I have a Record 405 and I only have used the 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" grooving irons. I have looked at all the other irons but not used any. I will probably be dead before LN releases their plow plane so I've been looking at the Lee Valley plow plane. Curious to know if anyone has experience uses the LV plane and the Stanley 45/46 or the Record equivalents or an old wooden one.
    They appear to be smaller than the Stanley/Record 45's and I would use it 99.999% to plow grooves. I'm not interested in using it for rabbets or dadoes.
    Side note - I saw a post that Lee Valley is coming out with a large plow plane too. Any truth to that?
    thanx
    ralph
    Ralph, if all you plan to do is groove for drawers, there are probably a few plough planes you could consider. Record make a version (to go along with your #405) called the #044, and this is a good one. There is an even smaller plough, the #043, but this does not have the range of its bigger sibling.

    The Veritas Small Plow is a better plane, but for more money than the #044, and for more money still, the new (in the Fall) Large Plow will also plough dados with its internal nickers. Both come with the facilities you have on the #405, and you may be duplicating these unnecessarily.

    The difference between the Veritas Small and Large is not significant enough to pay extra if all you plan to do is plane grooves. It comes into contention if you also plan to dado.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  5. #5
    I've got both the Stanley 45 and a LV plow plane. I love the 45 cool factor; but the LV plow plane just runs circles around the 45 in functional ease of use. OTOH, if all you're cutting is a groove, both perform well. The LV has fewer moving parts and is not as heavy, so I tire less. It also seems to track better but that may be feel, not fact. I bought two 45s (1 complete, the other partially) for less than I put into the LV. The LV blades are outstanding in sharpness and in getting them that way. I personally think that the LV plow confirmed for me how to use a plow plane whereas I just lacked confidence with the 45. If you have intermediate sharpening skills and already possess the confidence and knowledge of using hand planes, the 45 (I've also got a 043 that's superb but as Derek said, it just is so limited in scope) is perhaps all you would need. It's ultimately a matter of preference. Due to the lower center of gravity of the LV, I always reach for the LV when I've got a more difficult cut to make.

  6. #6
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    Hi Ralph,

    It might help if you say why you want something other thanthe Record 405 to make grooves – is it too heavy, to finicky to set up, you don’tlike nickel plating, etc.?

    Assuming you’re just looking for experiences to decide whatyou want, I have the Stanley 55 that I assume is “similar” to the 405, and Ihave the LV small plow (the original, simple setup with just one set of rodsand blades up to ¾”).

    I find that the LV small plow is easier to set up and feelsmore ‘agile’ if I’m doing small work, like grooves for drawers – especially instraight-grained stuff that is rough-cut to size.

    I use the 55 for dadoes, beading, etc. (that you said youweren’t really planning on) and I have also used it for grooves in long (8foot) pieces of wood because the weight helped keep it cutting when I wimpedout- less downward pressure needed. I have also used it with the nickers formaking grooves that were part of a visible decoration on the surface of thewood (I always seem to get some chips and tears on the edge of grooves whenplowing with no nicker). The LV small plow has no nickers.

    Karl


  7. #7
    Ralph,

    I have a 45, a Ssndusky wood, and a LV small plow, but no Record. Of the three the LV is close to perfect. The 45 is a POS, great to look at and a marvel of engineering but like most multipurpose tools it can do many thing but non of them great. Of course you will get folks that love their 45, to that my reply is YMMV. For grooves buy a LV small plow and don't look back, from what I've seen the large plow just adds some features that do not make it a better plow plane.

    ken

  8. #8
    Hi Ralph, I enjoy your blog

    I have a Record 044, a Stanley 45 and 46. The 45 isn't in usable condition yet and I doubt it ever will be. I picked it up at a garage sale last summer for $40 and it is just sitting on a shelf. I don't seem to have the desire to restore it just yet.

    Oddly enough I mainly use my 46 as a rabbit plane. The 044 is what I use for grooves. It can go from 1/8" to 9/16" in 1/16" steps. I find it to be the perfect size. I forget how much I paid for it, but I got it from Leach for less than what the LV plane goes for.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lawrence View Post
    If you search for Handworks, there is a recent thread where a member posted photos of the LV large plow. It was my impression he bought one there, but he could tell you for sure, and if so what he thinks of it.

    Jim Koepke has used the Stanley planes a lot. I do not have any experience with the Stanley or Records, but have an old Sargent that I have used a fair amount. I think several members have posted about their experience with the LV small plow as well.

    If you have specific questions, I am sure someone could help you out.
    That was me who posted images from handworks. I did buy the large plow, and I own the small plow. I was extremely impressed with the new large plow- enough that I quickly made the advance purchase. The photos are on my phone and I am on the computer now, but actually if you search for Rob Lee's post, he broke the news of the large plane on this site, and posted images. The large plane will accept the blades from the small plane, and also it takes Stanley 55 plow plane blades. The new plow has a nice feature- a fine adjustment on the fence. You set the fence to rough dimension, and then you use the fine adjustment knob to fine tune it to the exact spot you want it. Very well-thought, and the thing is just beautiful to behold with all the brass knobs. It looks like a weapon from a futuristic movie.

    Per Rob Lee, the large plow is slated to be released in August, but he is hoping for sooner. I can't remember the exact price- around $350 I do believe. I bought a whole array of blades so my total came to just over $500 for the plow and blades. Blades were in the range of $25-35 each as I recall. I kind of didn't look too closely at the prices because I just wanted to get what I needed and not get all upset over the price of each item. I had decided from the start that if they had the large plow available, that is what I was going to buy. If you bought at the show, they included a nice custom-made box and free shipping. Rob said he had not even figured out pricing on the custom box, but they were wanting to make it available for purchase. It was made of baltic birch plywood and had blade storage as well as a unique way that the top locked to the bottom so you could carry it without worry that it was going to fall open.

  10. #10
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    Here are pics
    IMG_1395.jpgIMG_1406.jpg

  11. #11
    Malcolm, That's some beautiful bragging rights! Congrats!!!!!

  12. #12
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    I use the Stanley 45...a LOT. Once you LEARN how to use it, it works great. Maybe that is the problem.....learning HOW to use it?

    Took me a few runs, but it is now my go-to for Grooves, Dados, rebates, Tongue & Groove joints, and cutting beads. Have also used it to cut "hollows" for brace bits to sit in.

    Of course, if someone merely likes a lot of bling on a simple plough plane.....

  13. #13
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    Howdy Ralph,

    Here is my account of a test drive of the Veritas Small Plow Plane:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...all-Plow-Plane

    At about the 5th post Derek Cohen list some links to his reviews of using the plane.

    My opinion is the VSPP is easier to set up and more comfortable in use than a Stanley #45 or Record #405. (The #45 & #405 are basically the same plane.)

    In my case as nice as the VSPP is to use, it would be hard to convince my wife another plane is needed when there are a half dozen planes capable of doing the same thing already in my shop.

    They appear to be smaller than the Stanley/Record 45's and I would use it 99.999% to plow grooves.
    Yes, it is a bit smaller. This makes it ideal to use on small jobs. But doesn't keep it from plowing grooves on the big jobs. Most of the time now my plane of choice for small grooves is a Stanley #50.

    My question is what will your uses be 0.001% of the time?

    My Stanley #45s often are used for making molding. The Veritas Large plow plane due to be released later this year would be the modern plane for making simple moldings and decorative cuts.

    Another consideration for the Veritas planes is there are metric blades available for them. This may be important if you use any plywood as it is now mostly sized to metric standards.

    A friend gave me a set of metric blades for the Record #405 and it comes in handy. Metric blades are handy if you want drawer bottoms to fit snugly.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #14
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    Derek, how does the Large Veritas Plow perform dados? Is it simply longer fence rods that ride against the end grain allowing the plane to cut to a certain distance across the grain, or is there some other feature that makes it a good plane for dados?

  15. #15
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    Hi Hasim

    First clamp a wooden fence across the board. It needs to be 1/4" high (from memory) ...



    Note that the plough is using the second skate. Both skates have a nicker, which is set to the outside of the blade (choose the width of blade you want). Set the depth stop (which is a real beauty!). Plane away ...



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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