Product suggestions?

[Evan Stewart]

For the last couple of years i have been using either B Moore advance or target coatings em6500 pigmented lacquer for my solid color finishes. I have also been using improper spray equipment ( graco airless cup gun ) i have a fuji mini might 4 on the way Thursday so that issue will hopefully be solved. Anyway back to the finish. My preference has been the target pigmented lacquer mostly for its ease in spraying and the fact that i can do 3 coats in a day. I do find BM advance to spray and level well too but obviously the recoat time is longer.

Generally speaking when my customers ask for a solid color finish i find that they are looking for a very smooth factory type finish or as close to making wood look like sprayed MDF as possible. I generally sand to 320 and again after priming and put a thick built up coat of pigmented lacquer to achieve this. My current customers are looking for something slightly different.

Im making a full height 10' L wall media unit and an L shaped bookcase. Everything is birch and the backs of all cabinets are beaded. Now instead of a super smooth finish they want a white finish with some of the grain texture showing. I went with the birch instead of poplar to give me a better grain pattern to start with and i got a really nice batch from my mill with really distinctive grain patterns. So before i start going with my old standby method and product do any of you guys have suggestions?

I am very far from a skilled finisher, i have been able to get proficient with the old impropper equipment i was using and targets pigmented lacquer, stains and waterborne top coat lacquer. I would love some input from anyone who has thoughts on product and methods.
Thanks

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm not sure what the customer is describing, but maybe this.... Start with a clear lacquer, and add white universal colorant, but don't add a lot. If you add a whole lot of pigment, you get opaque paint, which it sounds like they don't want. By adding less pigment, you get a finish that is semi-transparent. That is, the color is white (ish), and you can see the wood grain through it.

You could likely get the same effect by mixing the Target mixing base with a Target clear -- probably mostly clear with some mixing base. That'd be experimentation you could run with the materials you have on hand.

[Andy Giddings]

If they really want a pure white, I don't see how to achieve it without masking most of the grain (unless you choose different lumber). Birch doesn't have a distinctive grain to start with so unless they want a semi-clear similar to Pickled Oak (and Jamie's comments are what I would try) then hard to see how this can be achieved. I've used GF Milk Paint on Ash and a couple of coats still allows some grain to show, but Ash has a more distinctive grain than Birch

[Evan Stewart]

Well it does make me feel a little better that the answer isnt so simple since i have already put a fair amount of research into this. During the final meeting we had the homeowner's selected birch over poplar and maple because they preferred the grain pattern. At that point we went through some finishing options and they wanted white waterborne lacquer over the BM advance. Fast forward 4 weeks now that i am about to start finishing, they have been sending pictures of some cheap big box store shelf that they found with what looks like maybe pine or aspen with a faux aged rustic finish. They are not suggesting that the units should have this faux rustic look but they where wondering if it would be possible to make the grain show up and not be masked by the build-up. Im wondering if maybe what they might be looking for could be a less glossy finish? I've never done my units with anything less than a satin finish.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

If I'm understanding this correctly, the customer wants the piece fully covered in paint but still want to see the grain pattern show through correct?

I was able to do that with one of my projects by not laying down too many layers of paint, but that comes at a cost of durability. It might be okay if the piece never gets touched.

Kem Aqua plus white is the product I use for all my painted projects. It's super thin and sprays beautifully. You can do 1 coat primer 1 coat paint and that will allow you to see the wood grains come through.

I don't think it's a good idea though because you really don't have much finish on it and it won't be as durable.

Kem Aqua can be reapplied within half hour, this is true for both their primer and topcoat. I can lay down 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of paint with sanding in between in half a day.

[Evan Stewart]

Hoang,
That is exactly correct. I have seen the photos you posted of your media center project and this one is similar. My thought process on this has been about the same, the belief that i could probably do a couple thin coats but that will sacrifice durability. Honestly i think what they may be thinking of is a flat white wash type of stain that may look ok on a small floating shelf but i seriously doubt they are realistically picturing what that would look like on 2 entire walls.

Im not married to target coatings em6500 and i will definitely check out the product you suggested particularly since it sounds like it has the same characteristics that i like about the target product.

I think this will just have to be one of those projects where i email test piece pictures back and forth with the customer until they are happy.
Thanks

[John TenEyck]

I think you are going to have a hard time getting the grain of a close grained wood like birch to show through a pigmented topcoat. Hoang's approach is probably the best option, but I wouldn't be surprised if it still mostly masks the grain. FYI, you can apply a clear coat over the pigmented finish if it does work in order to provide a higher level of protection, as long as the two are compatible.

I did a project recently where I essentially painted white ash, and then clear coated it. The grain comes through very nicely because ash is pretty open grained.



Good luck.

John

[Evan Stewart]

John,

I think the image you attached is probably similar to what they are envisioning. I really wish they had arrived at this conclusion before we signed the contract, i bought all the materials and milled and cut everything. What is kind of frustrating is that i brought samples of poplar, maple, birch, oak , cherry and mahogany and they ruled out soft woods because they have kids and they told me that they didnt like the heavy grain in oak.

I dont have a good source for white ash near me, and i have only used it for small projects. How would you rate it for a heavy use project like cabinets or shelves?

[Andy Giddings]

John,

I think the image you attached is probably similar to what they are envisioning. I really wish they had arrived at this conclusion before we signed the contract, i bought all the materials and milled and cut everything. What is kind of frustrating is that i brought samples of poplar, maple, birch, oak , cherry and mahogany and they ruled out soft woods because they have kids and they told me that they didnt like the heavy grain in oak.

I dont have a good source for white ash near me, and i have only used it for small projects. How would you rate it for a heavy use project like cabinets or shelves?

Ash is harder, stronger and tougher than Birch so for heavy use it would be better

[Nelson Howe]

What about milk paint. I've done a few pieces in it and the grain shows through. They claim it sprays well, but I couldn't figure out how. You would need to put a sealer of some type over top for durability.

Nelson

[John TenEyck]

Milk paint will work on an open pored wood as long as you don't put it on too thick. But I doubt it will work better or worse than anything else on a closed pore one. You can put clear coat over milk paint for added protection. GF's milk paint + Endure Clear Poly is a very durable combination.

John

[Evan Stewart]

I am definitively confusing ash with aspen. I have never used ash before. Im sure one of my suppliers could order it. The guy i buy most of my rough cut from contracts with people clearing land from here in Maryland down to south Carolina so i would guess he comes across it. He's never offered it to me before but then again I've never asked either. I guess the only other issue would be getting matching plywood. Locally i can only get birch, maple, oak plywood everything else is special order.

[Andy Giddings]

Ash ply is definitely available, Evan (at least locally in Dallas). Rather than starting over with Ash (especially as everything is cut) I'd try light spray coats of some of the suggestions above and explain the difficulty of showing a lot of grain to the client

[Evan Stewart]

Ash ply is definitely available, Evan (at least locally in Dallas). Rather than starting over with Ash (especially as everything is cut) I'd try light spray coats of some of the suggestions above and explain the difficulty of showing a lot of grain to the client

Yeah it is way too late for that now, im already assembling. They chose the materials and finish and it is being built as outlined in the contract. I was certainly willing to do whatever possible to meet their request and i am willing to deviate from my planned finishing schedule but not at the risk of a finish that may not be durable. I think at this point i am going to go ahead as planned and maybe use em6000 clear over 2 coats of the pigmented.

[John TenEyck]

I can't say that I've always had finish samples before beginning a project, but I always get one approved before actually finishing the project; better to deal with the "Oh, I didn't think it was going to look like that." before it's too late to do anything about it. A contract may protect you, but it won't prevent disappointment if what you deliver is not what they expect.

John