Woodworking Magazines

[Brian Holcombe]

Derek, I think you sell yourself a bit short. You may only be able to do woodworking outside of your professional field, but you have produced some fine pieces that many of us have been happy to see come together.

My only reason for having a current woodworking magazine subscription is because of the lowball offer one of them recently made for a two year subscription.

My excitement grew while walking back from the mail box over the cover banner "Cut Cleaner Dovetails." There was nothing on the contents page that led me quickly to the article. The first page of contents listed an article on making a dovetailed dustpan. A quote from its pages, "There are thousands of tutorials on cutting dovetails out there. So I am not going to waste precious ink and paper explaining fundamentals of you can find in almost any book. But I would like to point out what I consider to be the critical aspects of the joint - so read the captions in "The Finer Points of Dovetails" below."

The side article didn't offer any revelations to me for improving my dovetail cutting. It didn't explain about the difference of cutting to the line and cutting through the line. To me that was one of the most important aspects of cutting dovetails that improved my efforts. There was nothing in the article telling readers the line made by transference from the tails to the pin board, or from pins to tail board, is outside of the waste area. This was another important step to improving my dovetails. So many sources say "split the line." Do that with the transferred mark and even your best sawing will leave dovetails with gaps.

On the second page of contents there was "Sliding Dovetail Waste Removal" in the letters section. This piece also didn't contain any earth shattering revelations on making better dovetails.

A promise on the cover not being satisfied by something inside has left me disappointed all too often with more publications than woodworking magazines.

One of my favorite parts of woodworking magazines is the readers tips and techniques. In many issues these have been the most informative parts. They often provide an insight into different ways of thinking and doing things.

I submitted an article on how a Stanley #45 can be used to make stopped cuts. It was rejected with the reasoning being there wouldn't be much interest. Maybe there aren't a lot of folks out there who, like myself, want to learn how to get more functions out of their tools. When a magazine is starting to become thinner over the years one would think they would welcome some different content. Maybe it would have been better to look through some old issues and rewrite an old article for submission.

Occasionally I will still purchase a FWW. The main problem with them for me is everything seems to be about using power tools. The most recent issue was purchased solely because it had an article on shave horses, something I want to learn more about.

jtk

Submit that same article to Salko, I'm sure he will find interest in it.

Ironically enough that self-awareness on your part means that you're probably better suited to write such articles than some of the other weekend warriors who blissfully continue to do so without similar hesitation. Dunning-Krueger blah blah.

When I was starting out I read all of your articles and reviews that I could find, and found them useful. Perhaps not appropriate for the sort of advanced-woodworker-oriented publication that you propose here, but useful all the same. On a related note, it is widely understood that the person who is most knowledgable about a given topic isn't always best suited to teach any but the most advanced classes about it. A weekend warrior who can write extremely well is probably more immediately useful to a starting/intermediate woodworker than is a bona fide master who cannot. Of course the student may eventually outgrow that teacher, but that's life.

Restating what I said above, I think that a self-aware weekend warrior (one who understands where they stand and what they should and shouldn't be teaching) can offer a lot to the community.

Agreed, I very much enjoy Derek's articles. That is the kind of stuff I enjoy reading, the builds especially along with highly technical stuff. The highly technical stuff is tough because it does have a very limited audience.

I found writing an article for a magazine to be a different experience from that of blogging, blogging frankly being a bit easier since I can prattle on about something after I kick off a project. Open ended writing, seemed almost like open ended projects....much harder to find a footing.

[steven c newman]

I think I lost interest in FWW after they butchered up their Knots forums....rarely even look through the mag on the store's shelf.

[Derek Cohen]

... Derek's articles. That is the kind of stuff I enjoy reading, the builds especially along with highly technical stuff. The highly technical stuff is tough because it does have a very limited audience.

I found writing an article for a magazine to be a different experience from that of blogging, blogging frankly being a bit easier since I can prattle on about something after I kick off a project. Open ended writing, seemed almost like open ended projects....much harder to find a footing.

Thanks Brian. I feel the same about your builds.

And I agree that there is a difference between blogging (whether on a forum or website) and a magazine article. The latter needs to be tighter. I am aware of this when posting articles here - I constantly weigh up which pictures to include and which are excessive. Pics need to convey the story. Add a little commentary to clarify.

Do you get requests for plans and dimensions? I frequently do.

I actually find the way the builds are written up in magazines to be a turn off. Clearly they are for beginners.

I am not interested in a cut list or a plan in an article. I am experienced enough to work those out for myself. In any event, I have no desire to copy someone else's work (the only piece I have copied was Han's Wegner's "The Chair", where the challenge was to make an exact copy).

What I am interested in is the design process, joinery, and build technique (both hand and power).

I also seek inspiration - not to woodwork, since that is burned into me already - but, to observe the mind of others, the sparks that lit the fire, and be challenged by this. As an amateur, I have the luxury of not having to meet a deadline, a quota, or a price (within reason). This is freedom to explore and create. Plans and cut lists are shackles.

It becomes increasingly evident to me that a magazine - the way we currently view one - cannot meet this need. On-line magazines, with video content, are the way forward. As mentioned, there needs to be content aimed at the Intermediate to Advanced amateur.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Larry Frank]

I have read this thread a couple of times and find that is a bit dismissive to the majority of woodworkers who will never get to the skill level of Mr. Cohen. The majority of woodworkers are "weekend warriors". Magazines will always direct their product toward the largest group.

In a previous life, before I retired, I was involved in some technical areas and was disappointed at not being able to find journal articles that were what I wanted, needed or interested me. I found a solution that worked for me. I wrote some papers for technical conferences and presented them. While the papers were not aimed at the level I was interested in, they did open doors in finding people with similar interests. It was the contacts that were developed that was a key.

I maintained contact with the people I found and traveled to see and talk with them. This helped me to develop my technical knowledge.

I am suggesting that when you reach a certain level, magazine or journal articles will not be sufficient. One needs to do things to create personal contacts with like minded people.

[William Fretwell]

Many years ago I stopped turning the pages of magazines as I gained nothing. I looked at the new on line magazine mentioned here and watched someone finish a 'clock'. A nice wooden box with a hole into which a modern clock face was inserted. The disjoin between wood and 'clock' was painful. Had they used Velcro it could be a cell phone holder, a picture frame or a reminder board all in the same day.
To learn new techniques I resort to real books.
Not wanting to be a philistine for new stuff I have watched some on line videos. Most are a painful waste of time. Paul Sellers has a few that I can see the value in what he is doing, increasing our numbers.

An on line magazine for the people here needs to really push the boundaries on new techniques to maintain an interest. Don't forget the real glory days of fine wood working were 200 years ago! We are all just minor players in the big picture.

[Derek Cohen]

I have read this thread a couple of times and find that is a bit dismissive to the majority of woodworkers who will never get to the skill level of Mr. Cohen. The majority of woodworkers are "weekend warriors". Magazines will always direct their product toward the largest group.

Larry, if the thread has a dismissive tone for "the largest group", then that is my fault. And I apologise, although it was not my intention for this interpretation of my comments. My argument is that "the largest group" are well-catered for. I am not even sure that this identification is correct. My point all along has been that woodworkers develop skills and grow beyond beginner - intermediate stage, and still have the same interest in reading about woodwork. I am simply identifying that there is another group. We do not know the size. For all we know, they/we could easily support a publication with a suitable fit. One of my aims in starting this thread was to throw this out to others interested in the issue, including the magazine editors who read SMC.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Frederick Skelly]

I agree that a "magazine" for the advanced amateur would be great!

This is a bit of an aside, but I'm thinking about current online offerings, including online mags with video content.... I'm the odd man out. I tried FWW online and found that a full size magazine format doesn't suit me on a tablet - they aren't set up for the smaller size and it's distracting. I tolerate it for my disks of back issues because that's the only solution for 20 years of past articles. Likewise, I tried 360 Woodworking and didn't get what I needed there either. I even tried a Cosman video subscription - and found myself not using it. Video is just not my "go to" approach. For me, it's a supplement to my normal way of learning.

My preferred routine is to read about how to do it - in a good book, magazine article or a blog like Derek or Brian's - and then practice on scrap until I get it right. If I don't feel confident after practicing, then I look for videos to fill in my gaps. But vids aren't my go to source like they are for many people. I think it's because video moves too fast for me to mimic. It's a good way for me to learn the finesse parts, but it's not how I learn the "big parts" of a task.

YMMV,
Fred

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Brian. I feel the same about your builds.

And I agree that there is a difference between blogging (whether on a forum or website) and a magazine article. The latter needs to be tighter. I am aware of this when posting articles here - I constantly weigh up which pictures to include and which are excessive. Pics need to convey the story. Add a little commentary to clarify.

Do you get requests for plans and dimensions? I frequently do.

I actually find the way the builds are written up in magazines to be a turn off. Clearly they are for beginners.

I am not interested in a cut list or a plan in an article. I am experienced enough to work those out for myself. In any event, I have no desire to copy someone else's work (the only piece I have copied was Han's Wegner's "The Chair", where the challenge was to make an exact copy).

What I am interested in is the design process, joinery, and build technique (both hand and power).

I also seek inspiration - not to woodwork, since that is burned into me already - but, to observe the mind of others, the sparks that lit the fire, and be challenged by this. As an amateur, I have the luxury of not having to meet a deadline, a quota, or a price (within reason). This is freedom to explore and create. Plans and cut lists are shackles.

It becomes increasingly evident to me that a magazine - the way we currently view one - cannot meet this need. On-line magazines, with video content, are the way forward. As mentioned, there needs to be content aimed at the Intermediate to Advanced amateur.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I've had one fellow build his version of my Butler's desk, he did quite a nice job of it and made changes to the design to suit his purpose but kept the overall aesthetic well in tact.

I feel similarly in that what I am after is that same understanding of someone's process. That is something not often conveyed, and I think it should be somewhat rare. Of course you get a sense of this when reading books and occasionally in interviews. I've seen a couple of these by Fine Woodworking which I thought to be very well done, the most recent was an interview with Andrew Hunter.

I feel they're all taking steps forward, but like most things it takes time and the larger the organization the harder it is to change it. For a blogger or similar it is easy to move from written to video, but for a large company they know that there is risk with each major change they will move toward it at a much slower pace (IMO). I don't normally have time to watch videos on woodworking so I usually only do so if I expect I will really appreciate the content, I prefer the written word because I can read fairly quickly and can revisit certain things without having to scan a video.

[steven c newman]

I don't make videos, but I will watch a few. No longer have to wait for the weekend to get any shop time, the joy of being retired. Mainly I try to do a new way....as I putter along, building things for Family and friends. Keeps me out of the Pubs


I am not a "Pro" in the sense I am on a time clock.....or having to sell what I make. More fun this way, and IF it was fun, I wouldn't be doing this.

I do a few Blogs, from time to time. If others find them worth following, fine. Afraid I am not much of a Teacher, but IF others find something they like in what I do, qand even learn something..that is fine , as well.
IF someone has a head full of knowledge and skills, and doesn't care to share it, that knowledge will be lost. Then we are left to sit here and argue how they actually made something.....main reason I am willing to share anything I can....and Paying Forward to the next person.

[Jim Koepke]

A major conundrum for magazines is balancing the audience. There are people who have never done much with wood maybe picking up an issue for their first time. There are some who have made a few shelves out of necessity for their home who find it might be fun to learn a bit more about woodworking. Then there are those at many different levels of the craft.

The articles throughout the magazine has to be able to appeal to all the different levels of readers without turning their back on any of the people who may be their target audience.

What often turns me off with FWW is the articles almost always require machines that are not in my shop. A table saw isn't going to magically appear in my shop. Same for biscuit jointers, lunch box planers or router tables.

Sometimes the magazines can be a source of ideas, but often that isn't even in the content.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

A major conundrum for magazines is balancing the audience. There are people who have never done much with wood maybe picking up an issue for their first time. There are some who have made a few shelves out of necessity for their home who find it might be fun to learn a bit more about woodworking. Then there are those at many different levels of the craft.

The articles throughout the magazine has to be able to appeal to all the different levels of readers without turning their back on any of the people who may be their target audience.

What often turns me off with FWW is the articles almost always require machines that are not in my shop. A table saw isn't going to magically appear in my shop. Same for biscuit jointers, lunch box planers or router tables.

Sometimes the magazines can be a source of ideas, but often that isn't even in the content.

jtk

It would be interesting to know the proportion of woodworkers that fall into the various subcategories but, I suspect, 90% are not neanderthal types. Maybe Patrick can create a SQL to figure this out and let us know.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I didn't find the thread to dismissive to weekend warriors Larry. I think Derek was trying to stimulate discussion on, "Where should all of us at every level be headed given the limitations of print media?" and "How can we find design inspiration?" I hark back to a series of classes I took years ago on the theory and practice of teaching physical skills, in this case kayaking. Every person learns differently and success depends on providing instruction in each of the 3 major methods of learning. Some are visual learners who can watch and then pick up the technique. Others can learn from written descriptions with diagrams. The final group learns by modeling the action as it is being demonstrated. All of us learn using all three methods, but one is dominant. The trick for each of us is to discover in which one we personally are dominant and skew our efforts to take advantage of that method. Our advantage in this internet era is that we have all 3 methods available to us in articles, blogs, e-zines, and videos. We should consider ourselves fortunate to have today's diverse buffet.

[Frederick Skelly]

...... the 3 major methods of learning. Some are visual learners who can watch and then pick up the technique. Others can learn from written descriptions with diagrams. The final group learns by modeling the action as it is being demonstrated. All of us learn using all three methods, but one is dominant. The trick for each of us is to discover in which one we personally are dominant and skew our efforts to take advantage of that method.

Well heck, I didn't know that Dave. That explains what I said about myself back in post #37, earlier in this thread. Thanks!
Fred

[Warren West]

The whole print thing is dying a slow and grisly death. Not just woodworking magazines, all of it.

What I was trying to say above is that someone who is really smart and wants to "publish" these days needs to forget the old paper paradigm.

Lemme ask you guys a few things:

1. Would you like a magazine that actually had videos of an experienced woodworker working and explaining what he is doing and why, or would you prefer to read an article that an editor chopped up to fit it in a certain size for his magazine format?

2. Would you like to be able to find an article or all references to a certain subject, like "dovetails" with a few mouse clicks instead of looking around through all the mags or trying to find a reference sheet to the articles?

3. Would you like to have a means to respond to what you are reading other than having an editor pick who gets to be read and who does not? It is called a forum.

I agree print is dying. The hard part of moving to the web is monetization models ads vs subscription or a combination. There is a prevailing attitude among many that if it's on the web it should be free, so it will be hard to convince some to actually pay money for content. I was a member of Fine Woodworking the digital version and didn't mind paying but there are many who won't. The other thing that works against a subscription is that ever day there are people blogging and vlogging various aspects of woodworking and anything else under the sun. Much of it is worthless, but it only cost them their time to make and youtube is paying the hosting bill so it's here to stay... but some of it is quite good and it's easy to find the good stuff. As the amount of good stuff grows it's harder and harder for a publisher of an online magazine to match what is on the rest of the web and have a compelling product.

I would think any online publication that is going to establish a subscription needs to do the following - at least: (listed out by number, but not meant as a direct reply to any of Ted's numbers per se)
1. Content should be searchable, I'm not just talking search engine in your site based on keywords, I'm talking articles indexed and entered into the system ala library catalog. Search on author, subject, title and so on. (Ted's item 2, but an expansion)
2. Content the "weekend warrior" (I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but was just keeping with Derek's original mention) can't easily produce. Interviews with top wood workers, or even companies products, in the case of interview with the manufacturer of a table saw for instance. No garbage advertorial, but an honest article maybe talking real aspects of design or things they had to overcome. Field trips to woodworking shows, woodworking shops. Derek mentioned joinery by the Chinese or Japanese, how about interviews with some of the masters or some articles of this joinery?

It's hard to take on "free" with a subscription and if everyone is free, it's hard for anyone to make money because by placing the content out there for free you've already shown you are willing and able to work for nothing and are only hoping to get paid and three more just like you start vlogging each day. Whereas maybe it cost $1500 for that 1/2 page ad in the print magazine with a documented reach of 20,000 interested readers, it's less likely any company is ever going to spend much money with an individual with a popular site because there are so many with popular sites and it's hard to prove real numbers of followers to justify an expenditure because of fake likes and fake subscriber numbers. Then it's not who has the best content, but who has sufficient content and the best coders writing bots that set up accounts and subscribe to channels and like your articles. Witness the woodworking plan sites we've all come across. They are crapped out faster than wordpress and other free sites can close them.

I certainly don't have all the answers, would be a potential subscriber and wish anyone undertaking the woodworking "magazine" of the future the best of luck.

[Brian Henderson]

I gave up on all woodworking magazines, in fact magazines in general, years ago. In fact, when I moved last year, I gave my entire paper magazine collection to the local library so I didn't have to take it with me. There just isn't enough new information in the magazines to make it worthwhile and I couldn't care less about any of the advertising. The magazines just recycle all of their content every couple of years. I did an experiment in 2016 with Fine Woodworking, I went through every issue for the year, just to see if there was a single thing that was worth paying for, anything I hadn't seen before.

There wasn't. So I don't do it anymore.