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Thread: "I got minimal tear-out"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Gulf Coast, Florida
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    "I got minimal tear-out"

    "I used such-and-such plane using such-and-such method and I got minimal tear-out."

    I see this all the time here, on YouTube and other sites that I read. So he got tear-out.

    What do you do about it? Do you keep planing until it's gone, use filler, put the project in the kindling pile and start over or just live with it?

    I've gotten some really nasty tear-out on the pine I'm working with - some of it's 1/16" deep. There's plenty of wood if I want to plane all that away but I don't want to. It's a lot of wood and I should have been done with this project three weeks ago.

  2. #2
    With each project, my ability to read the wood improves as does my sharpening ability. I can make it further and further to the finishing step without pulling out the sandpaper.

    For me, I caused myself a lot of frustration at the earlier stages aiming for perfection in planing and viewing my resorting to sandpaper as a failure. Now I see that it's a skill (for me) acquired over years, not days. My advice [weekend warrior advice alert ] is to push yourself a little further each project, but don't beat yourself up for wanting to take the shorter cut at some point. Incremental improvements.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Camas, Wa
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    It's pine, throw it out and get some real wood. Throw the planes out while you are at it. I would sand it out with a belt sander( I have3 differ sizes) but it seems like many people hate belt sanders like I hate planes. I have not had any luck with wood filler and strive to not use any.

  4. #4
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    I actually like pine a lot. It's not pretentious. My planes are really freakin sharp. You can always tell when I've been sharpening stuff because I manage to nick my hand someplace every single time and it doesn't take much. Usually I just lightly bump the edge and now I'm dripping blood all over my project.

    I also like pine because it's cheap to learn on and the projects I'm using it for don't warrant expensive wood. I have the skill to make a nice box or pretty much anything that's small that doesn't require wood carving artistry. But the big stuff I'm just not set up for.

    For example, my current project is still that same stupid chemical cabinet. I made a base and a top that are identical. Basically I'm framing it as one piece. Then I'll cut it apart and line the inside with plywood and then add shelves.

    The base is roughly 3' x 4'. I don't have any proper way to hold it while I work on it.

    So it's propped up on a counter with same spacers between it and the wall so I can plane it. But it's longer than the counter is wide so I've got a stand under one of the corners which moves to the other corner when I'm working on the other side.

    I have one of those little portable wood vise things with dog holes in my shop. I set up a stop on the other end of my workbench and cut a bunch of piers the same height as the vise thing to support the wood. So basically I'm using dogs on the vice to clamp against a stop that's clamped to my workbench (the top of my bench is 1/2" tempered glass) with a bunch of pieces under the wood in between spaced about a foot apart. And it's all way to high to plane properly.

    My point is that everything is jury-rigged so it's not coming out all that great and it's way more work than it should be. So instead of screwing up expensive wood, I'm screwing up cheap wood.

    Oh.. and there's no room to even work on this project in my shop after any of it is glued together so I'm assembling in the kitchen and planing in the office I'm sitting in right now.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul K. Johnson View Post
    I actually like pine a lot. It's not pretentious.
    Ain't nuttin' wrong with pine! In some parts of the world it is in demand.

    I visited a full-time woodworker in northern Italy (Merano) who showed me a huge stack photos of decades of woodworking projects, furniture, kitchens, baths, office installations, much more. Beautiful! He "said" (we had no common language, but the photos appeared to back it up) that he uses pine for nearly all work. I think I understood he had a waiting list.

    Here he is preparing a thick chunk of beautiful olive wood to fit in my suitcase.

    woodworker_IMG_4954.jpg

    Next time I go I'll try to find out how he deals with pine! Probably like me, with a drum sander...

    JKJ

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
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    I bought a drum sander. When I don't have tearout problems, I stop about 0.020" from my final target, and take 2 or 3 passes on each side through the drum sander to get to my target. When I have really bad tearout like you described, I'll stop up 1/16" short and endure the drudgery of having to take lots of passes through the drum sander to get down to the target.

    The two faster solutions are to get a segmented head planer or a more robust drum sander. I'm looking to trade up to a heavier duty drum sander. If I used pine (never do) I'd probably get a segmented head planer because that stuff is awful in a drum sander.

    John

  7. #7
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    I actually found the knottiest sides of the boards to put them on the outside. I'm hiding the knot-free sides on the inside. Of course that meant planing through knots which hasn't been much of a problem so far.

  8. #8
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    I've never tried it with a plane, but I wonder if the method I sometimes use on the lathe where chipout is present would work: flood the wood with sander sealer or even thinned sander sealer. Depending on the wood, it sometimes works to "glue" fibers in place.

    JKJ

  9. #9
    Well, it happens! A sixteenth is pretty harsh. What I usually do is try and hide that section. In some boards, the grain changes direction and it is very difficult to avoid. Yeah, there are all sorts of tricks to avoid it and with time, you'll get better at seeing it before it happens and employing some of those tricks. If you are planing through knots, you are already pretty good! Depending on the project, yes, sometimes I'l select a new board for that part.

    I have used the various tricks to repair and avoid, I hide it, I cuss and holler (it doesn't help!), etc.

    Tony

  10. #10
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    Sharply honed HSS blades.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  11. #11
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    On every piece of wood you are going to plane down, you want to look closely at the surface before you make the first pass. Try to read the grain, then make a pass through your planer and pay attention to the surface as it comes out. If there is tear out in any area consider reversing the feed direction to see if the tear out is any less. You will also want to reduce the thickness of the cut. Very light cuts are less likely to produce tear out, but your progress toward the desired dimension will be slower. Patience is a virtue when dealing with tear out. If you are using a hand plane, you can feel how the piece is cutting. On any given piece of wood, it will plane easier in one direction than it will in the other. A scribble of paraffin wax on the sole of your plane will reduce the friction and make planing much easier. If your direction of planing is -> then you want the ends of the grain to lean ////////. If the grain is leaning \\\\\ you will get tear out. Take a piece of old tee shirt and slide it along the surface of your board with light pressure, you can feel the grain ends grab the tee shirt more in one direction than the other. AND, sometime the grain reverses one or more times along the length of a board.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

    My advice, comments and suggestions are free, but it costs money to run the site. If you found something of value here please give a little something back by becoming a contributor! Please Contribute

  12. #12
    I haven't had problems with tear out for forty years. I use double iron planes. It takes quite a bit of experimentation to get a feel for the double iron, what setting to use and what depth of cut to use, but the results are well worth the effort to learn. It is helpful to plane in a favorable direction, but you should be able to take full length shavings in either direction without tear out.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    plane.JPG
    This is Knotty white pine..

    There is a knot right under that plane.
    I also find that IF I plane away from a knot, instead of trying to plow right over it, no tear-out happens. Look around the knots, read the way the grain runs INTO the knots, and go away from the knot and with the grain.

    Panel is the top of a pine pantry cupboard I just finished up a while back...

    Barn Siding Table.jpg
    SHARP tools on the lathe works nicely. Although Pen Turners use a version of Super Glue / CA to seal their blanks before they turn them...

  14. #14
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    Was this thread moved here from a different conference?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Yes. It was in the General Woodworking forum. I couldn't find it until I clicked a link in my email.

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