Shaper

[Christopher Hedges]

Hello everyone. What a great forum full of invaluable information!

I am in the market for a new 3HP shaper with a budget of $2500-$3500 USD. I would prefer new. While I am pretty experienced with a router table, I am somewhat new to the shaper world so am not entirely sure what I should be looking for and which brands are the most reliable. At most this shaper will be used for light production as I am a one man shop. I also need a little help in determining what kind of cutter head works best. It seems there are at least three options available. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated! (and if I didn't give enough info its because Im not sure what other info to give. Sorry!)

Chris
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[Andy Giddings]

Chris, would help if you could provide more insight as to what you're going to be producing/making - especially the types of profiles that you want to create. Also, is the budget just for the shaper or for some of the tooling as well? Have you considered or do you need a power feeder and is that in the budget? Any reason why you are choosing 3HP?

[Christopher Hedges]

Thanks for the reply Andy! I tend to stick with the 22° "Shaker" profile or a simple 3/16 roundover. Of course versatility is a plus. I plan to make mostly cabinet doors but as my understanding of the usefulness of shapers increases I will certainly expand my horizons. I suspect 3HP is plenty of power for my needs at this point. Something tapped for a power feeder would be nice but I don't plan to use one at this point so can tap it later. Tooling can be extra. Would like some kind of tooling that allows for at least a 1/2 tongue. 5/8 preferably. Hope that helps.

[Cary Falk]

I am not a shaper expert. I am just a hobbiest. I started out with the Grizzly 3hp shaper. The fence really bugged me. It was time consuming to adjust. I think a shaper lives or dies by the fence. I didn't like changing the spindles and router bit collets. I sold it and bought a Laguna 5hp Pro Shaper on sale for about $2600. Laguna has a 10% off sale a couple times a year. I also looked at the Jet JWS-35X3 but was able to get a better deal on the Laguna. I wanted the PM2700 but it was to spendy. On sale it would be at your upper limit. Anyway, I love the Laguna. It seems to be very similar to the PM. I am not sure how any of the 3 will survive long term in a one man pro shop. I have a thread on here somewhere that compares some of the parts between the 3hp Grizzly and the 5hp Laguna.

You might want to look at a power feeder. I found one on CL for $300.

I have one of those Amana Euro blocks that take the 40mm and 50mm steel knives. I think it makes sense cost wise for a hobbyist.

[Richard Wolf]

A power feed is almost a necessity with a shaper. Makes it much safer and your results will be so much better.

[Christopher Hedges]

All of the shapers that were mentioned I looked at and to be honest they all look like the would do the job that I envision doing now. I don't have enough experience to say that 5HP is better than 3 so am relying on experience using a 3HP tablesaw everyday without problem. I've heard the maximum about fences so maybe this is the thing I need to focus on a bit more. As for power feeder, other than safety and climb cutting, what are the advantages? (Thanks for all the info guys!)

[Martin Wasner]

Why new?

Why 3hp?

In my opinion, $3500 doesn't get you much for a new shaper, but if you're patient, it can get you a lot in the used department.

Also in my opinion, but 3hp doesn't get you much for ability to run bigger profiles. Sure, it can be done, but it requires patience (of which I have little to none of)

A power feeder is a must for 99% of operations. Also in my opinion.

Me, I'd shoot for something closer to the 10hp range and built like a brick outhouse used. They're out there, and well within your budget. That's assuming you have enough power and the ability to place a 1500# piece of equipment as well.

[Larry Copas]

I bought a new Delta 3 HP about 20 years ago. It has done everything I wanted and ran miles of moulding without problem. I ran it the first five years without a feeder. Two thoughts, I wished I had bought a 5 HP for raised panels. 3 HP is not enough for some of those profiles, but their are work arounds. I also should have bought a feeder up front.

I also have a SCMI, think its 7 HP with a 1 HP feeder. Pure luxury. It was used and I had to put in new spindle bearings..$$$$'s. I'm still at less than half of your budget.

[Jared Sankovich]

I started with 3hp, moved up to 5hp a few months later. I'm looking for 7+ hp deal currently. Like everyone said get a feeder as well.

There was just a scmi t130 (smaller 5hp version ) locally to me with feeder and a few hundred pairs of corrugated knives for $3200.

New that would buy you a grizzly and a feeder

[Larry Edgerton]

Why new?

Why 3hp?

In my opinion, $3500 doesn't get you much for a new shaper, but if you're patient, it can get you a lot in the used department.

Also in my opinion, but 3hp doesn't get you much for ability to run bigger profiles. Sure, it can be done, but it requires patience (of which I have little to none of)

A power feeder is a must for 99% of operations. Also in my opinion.

Me, I'd shoot for something closer to the 10hp range and built like a brick outhouse used. They're out there, and well within your budget. That's assuming you have enough power and the ability to place a 1500# piece of equipment as well.

What he said.

Bigger is better and I believe safer. Used commercial with a feeder already can be found for about that money. My current shaper has 9 hp spindles, replacing a 5 hp, and the difference is staggering with big cutters. Plus it opens up your options as far as what heads you can pick up used. Big cutters have less of an audience so sometimes go pretty cheap as well as doing a better job.

There is no new shaper in your price range that I would want, just saying.......

[Christopher Hedges]

Why new?

Why 3hp?

In my opinion, $3500 doesn't get you much for a new shaper, but if you're patient, it can get you a lot in the used department.

New because I would rather have the assurance of a warranty than worry about something crapping out and then having to fork over more money to fix it. As for 3HP, I don't have any immediate plans for the larger profiles you mention. Which I assume you mean larger raised panels?

[David Kumm]

Machine warranties are overrated. A small shaper is not a big step up from a router table relative to the cost. 3500 gets you a used Minimax, SCMI, or Felder 5-7.5 hp machine with possibly a sliding table and a much better fence. Stout quill and enough power to keep the cut smooth. Once you have a shaper you soon find you want to do more with it. Build cabinets, passage doors, etc. You will appreciate the heavier machine. I started with a 3 hp SECO and built lots of stuff but it was slow and inefficient. Your choice but for that cost I'd get a machine that does it all. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

Panel raising yes, but even sticking cuts take a fair amount of power. 3hp is adequate for the smallest of cuts.

Warranty is a non-issue. Most only give you a year.

I have a couple of SAC shapers, an SCM T130N, a couple of Powermatic 27's, and a Rockwell. I bought the Powermatics new when I first started the rest used along the way. The best shaper I've got is a big bed SAC and I paid a whopping $1200 for it. It's not in the best condition of the group, but it's the most solid. The Powermatics are toys and need bearings replaced regularly if under hard use. They are to be liquidated asap. The Rockwell I only bought because nobody was bidding on it at an auction as I couldn't say no for $200. It's setup for cutting notches in drawers, that's it.

Do what you like. You asked for advice and you got it. What you're talking about isn't a good value for your dollar. I went down the same path as you for the same reasons years ago, and it wasn't the wisest course of action.


As far as cutters go, if you go with a 3hp you're going to want small diameter brazed tooling. Bigger insert heads, or corrugated heads are best used on larger machines unless you like pulling quills to swap out bearings. Plus the lighter machines don't have the stoutness loaded or tolerances on an empty spindle to justify the cost of better heads. Most of the lighter shapers also can't be slowed down enough to use much over a 4" swing either. 7000rpm is a bit much even for that size.

[rudy de haas]

Some thoughts:

1 - for repetitive work a power feeder is practically a must have. Even for doing one-ofs (e.g. a 12 ft long piece of jatoba crown moulding) the power feeder will give you much better results than hand feeding and so is worth the set-up and testing time.

2 - more power is good - but generally unnecessary for the hobbyist user. Does it really matter if a 3" edge trim takes two passes? I find that for little jobs my 1990s 3 HP Craftesx/grizzly/Delta machine is overkill. I have one large cutter (5") that I've only used once to see how it worked, and the machine ripped it across hard maple without slowing down or changing sound. For real work, I'd make two passes with it anyway so more power would be pointless for my type of usage.

3 - cutters are expensive and are where the steel meets the wood. Consider spending less on the shaper, more on cutters, the power feeder, and maybe a fence upgrade. i.e. look closely at what the total package offers versus what it costs. not just at what the base machine costs versus what it does.

[roger wiegand]

I've been very happy with my 3hp ancient Delta shaper (1" spindle) that I got for about $600 with a whole pile of cutters. I haven't felt the need for something bigger, but I'm not running a cabinet shop. There's not much to go wrong with these machines, I'd think a warranty would be of minimal benefit, especially if you can buy a half dozen of them for the price of a new machine.

A feeder, however, is transformational to the use and safety of these machines. I use mine 10 x more since getting a feeder, and am still finding new uses for it. It's no longer an exercise in terror to turn the machine on, and the results are much faster, better, and smoother. I'd regard a feeder as an absolute essential on a shaper. Drilling and tapping the top to mount it was perhaps a half hour job, no big deal.

It's not hard to spend a couple thousand dollars on cutters, one carbide coping set even for my relatively small machine runs $4-500. If you need a half dozen profiles it adds up! Insert cutters offer an economical alternative for other kinds of cuts.

With your budget I'd go for a used machine, a feeder, and small number of good quality cutters.