Shaper cutters

[jack forsberg]

Good to hear from you Jack, I couldn't make it to Rustfest as my youngest has been in the hospital since June 5, and was having a second emergency surgery that Friday at midnight.

I have mailed your chisels to you, hope to see you next year.............Rod.

Matt Matt told me about your boy hope things are all under control now . Did miss seeing you but of course very understandable. Was a really good year and we're hoping to talk Konrad into doing a demonstration with his hand planes . .. The support from people like you and the rest in the community is really quite remarkable and could not happen Without all of the help from the volunteers . I'll have to send you off some money for post and appreciate all your help . Perhaps you would like to do a demonstration at the show yourself though you will be restricted to vintage kit and you'll need top hats to run your 30mm. thanks Rod will see you soon

[Jeff Duncan]

Warren was right I could've had a simple feather board for that belection moulding and honestly I did try to set them up one but they were fouling the moulding and was unable to make a quick pressure shoe. Always trying to develop better ways . The fenced I made was brilliant and is basically a breakthrough fence so the work cannnot draw in . Still a good example of bad practice . I would've scolded Adam if I caught him doing it

I think most of us who earn a living doing this silliness end up using less than ideal setups from time to time. I sometimes do things I'd never let an employee do, but I also have a decent understanding of what I'm doing and if something goes wrong, where and how it might do so. I hand feed from time to time and use various methods to do so while trying to keep as safe as possible. Of course as much as some things I do seem dangerous to others, I'm sure some things Jack does would seem too much for me! It's to a great degree about an individuals experience, and anyone not comfortable with an operation, especially on the shaper, should probably re-think it While it's probably one of the most flexible machines in the small shop and opens so many doors, it's also one of the most dangerous because of that flexibility.

JeffD

[Warren Lake]

I can see it now a post of our bad practices dont mind going first then again and again

[Warren Lake]

this is making me mental last post Jeff Duncan respond to it go back to the forum and my post is below Mels post on hand feeding.

[jack forsberg]

I can see it now a post of our bad practices dont mind going first then again and again

great idea you go first but i got lots of content

[Warren Lake]

is this sort of like confession not sure its a great idea but its reality of stuff ive done making a living. never made a folder of me misbehaving. The rules are passed based on the choosen parameters. Came with a machine from a company that made nice kitchens, he did 3/4 ply big pieces not single boxes attached, if he made an island and it was 10 feet long then it was a 10 foot island one piece if it fit in the home, same as the old guy made stuff in the old days. Head normally on another shaper with a feeder with a 3/16 metal strip on the bottom of the fence, run on a track feeder. Knife extends below the head and cuts the panel flat, In this case dull but wanted to try it on another machine that has sliding table before i took the table apart to sort it out. This was run at the slowest RPM and on the other machine slowest speed setting one pass. Panel had be run before and was just a scrap sitting around this photo easier than searching more at the moment. Worth noting I got a few heads from him and was looking one day and noticed that one of them had more serrations I dont remember now if this was his set up or if I chose the head with more serrations. Have detailed notes somewhere and photos once I realized it. I also have a dummy blank in there something that as not in there and my way of thinking should be, you can see it sitting over the knife.

raised A.jpg

[Mel Fulks]

Warren,some of the 4 knife corg heads will distort without blanks in them. That can make it impossible to get the head to fit on to the spindle. I've encounterd that but can't say now whether it was brand related.
sorry,Warren I misunderstood. I agree the blank you show should not be there, but the two unused spots should have a blank between gib and head.

[Warren Lake]

Hi Mel

thanks so did I misunderstand I always have all the gibs in ithey should never be empty, been told you should tighten your way around as you tighten, Martin has mentioned that as well good to hear things over. My thought you see my little knfe blank there was that without it its going to have a tendency to distort the gib or more of a possibility. I really depends where that allen screw is if if falls on the knife or if it falls a certain amount away. Appreciate you bringing that up. Does anyone know a torque spec on these im always curious to put a number on them., Asked two shaper manufacturers top nut torque spec and after a few times gave up on both of them.

Shot is at an angle so it looks like the allen screw falls on the knife but really its above it, just like you dont see the flat under the head of the knife it looks more like its on the outside. Oh I see why short blank in the non knife slots. Why do you need the blank in the open spaces? thats new to me as the gib is still putting pressure there? never seen it before in the shops I was in but have lots of photos will look sometimes I dont see things then later looking at photos see all kinds of things I did not notice. Head goes on and off perfectly however if there is a better way im open to it for sure.

[Martin Wasner]

raised A.jpg

A little bit of pee comes out looking at that picture. There a whole lot of nope going on there.

[Mel Fulks]

Well, since the some of the 4 knife heads do distort so much that they can't be put on the spindle with only two knives,I prefer using knife "blanks" routinely when using only two knives . Especially in a shop that might have a numer of heads made by several companies ; I would rather assume that there will be trouble without the blanks than have to back up and make alteration.Ive been told that the the gib should not be tightend without engagement with knife Corgs ,so I see the use of corg blanks as neccesary.

[Phillip Gregory]

I would start by flipping the head upside down and spinning the spindle the other direction (or on my unit, using the other spindle) to run the work face down over the knives. Running work underneath knives is doable but gives me the willies due to the high likelihood of kickback if the work rises, also the knives out in the open fling chips everywhere and makes a giant mess.

[Warren Lake]

thanks Mell on that logic that makes sense to run the gib into corg not damage it easy to understand the why when there is logic behind it.

No pee so far Martin though I hear it can happen when you are older, whats with all that golden years stuff? 35 plus years ago started on this stuff not quite as much overhang and a big huge German trained guy standing over me. Just him was intimidating. I know you said you try not to hand feed I enjoy it, its just me always has been. For smaller cuts with good sharp cutters you barely hear it cut and light fluffy shavings fly off, you feel the cutter working or dont even feel it. I would not do it on this cutter by hand set up okay, not by hand one safety the other the feeder is consistent speed and pressure. As i learn and accept the newer stuff sure there is a fancy insert one that is safe and cuts great then a pretty good cost guessing at a grand but maybe its less dont know if it could cut as clean of course it would be money well spent. Irony is I usually prefer the look of flat panels

It was a different time. no cope and stick stuff there didnt even know what it was, mortise and tennon mitred profile how he did stuff. Few shops I was in had no guards anywhere on anything so learned that way. Nice when i use feather boards on stuff now. I dont flip the cutter though agree better under or in the table, former owner ran all his stuff this way and the way I had always done it was stroke the back of the panel first then size the tongue to what you want. ive found zero grief using this as wrong as some things might be. the worst issue ive had and its super serious is a power feed the Europa can not be trusted to stay where you put it. I clamp an extra block so it cant move, former owner told me that and the wheels wear battle scars. Not sure I could trust any feeder now to stay put 100 percent know they do however. I mounted the power feed on another machine left side thinking if a feeder ever moves if mounts left it will move away from the cutter normal feeling direction,. right side it turns into the cutter. Anyone ever thought that is that logical? This shaper has a track feeder you can put a panel through 3" wide across the end grain any width and it cuts well . that sold me on the usefullness of belt feeders. okay made my confession well one of them.

[jack forsberg]

Very good Point Mel that without blanks the Gibbs can distort and damage the corrugation in the block . My only comment would be is that the projection of that knife can be greatly reduced by extending the cutting action under the block. It does illustrate my point about the true thickness of corrugated steel . And the weakest portion is at the head where it would snap .

[Larry Edgerton]

I would start by flipping the head upside down and spinning the spindle the other direction (or on my unit, using the other spindle) to run the work face down over the knives. Running work underneath knives is doable but gives me the willies due to the high likelihood of kickback if the work rises, also the knives out in the open fling chips everywhere and makes a giant mess.

I find the opposite. Cutter above the work, dedicated fence with a cutter guard, smallest ring in the table supporting the work works better for me especially as I often design with small panels. I do not however use a non limiting cutter and do have a solid aluminum bar supporting the panel at the table level. Its too easy to tip small panels into the cutter doing it upside down.

[jack forsberg]

I find the opposite. Cutter above the work, dedicated fence with a cutter guard, smallest ring in the table supporting the work works better for me especially as I often design with small panels. I do not however use a non limiting cutter and do have a solid aluminum bar supporting the panel at the table level. Its too easy to tip small panels into the cutter doing it upside down.

Same here Larry but i drop a MDF top with a small hole over the spindle for support under the cutter . i then use hard wood for the 1/4" fence that is glued to that . with light cuts for small panel's and a box feed i can mill with less explosion .