Questions about my first engraver purchase.

[Roy Rollins]

Hi guys, first I would like to say this is an awesome forum and Im very greatful for any help and info that you guys can give. I have been researching machines for the past few weeks and I am in the market for possibly a CO2 or fiber no more than 8000.00. Im looking for the best chinese websites to order machines from as I have never ordered anything overseas before. Also what is the process involved and time Im looking at waiting on a machine from overseas. Does anyone have any have any experience with the Dihorse 30w fiber. I noticed I can get the dihorse on amazon for about 6600.oo. I believe it is a Raycus and actually looks very similar to the Boss FN laser as well. Also if you guys were going to choose a Co2 for around 8000 what would be your recomendations?

[Tim Bateson]

A Co2 & a Fiber are two VERY different beasts, for very different work. The overlap is minimal. You need to first decide what your product and/or service is before you choose one over the other. Also, the learning curve on the Fiber is massive... without any prior laser working knowledge. Still very steep if you do.

My 2cents - Co2: buy an Epilog or Trotec. Fiber: buy a Chinese product.

[John Lifer]

Pretty much agree with Tim, first, what are you going to do with it? Read here and elsewhere. Understand the difference. I kind of think the fiber is more versatile than what i originally thought. But it Is severely limited as to size of parts unless you go with an epilog Gantry.
No reason to rehash, read past posts!

[Roy Rollins]

Thanks guys for your quick responses. Maybe I should have worded it differently. I have been researching for weeks so I know the difference between both. Im leaning towards a fiber because 80% of my uses will be gun parts etching metal and polymer. The other 20 will be learning about everything else that i can make money with which is why im not sure if I may need to go with a co2 for all the other money making stuff I have no knowledge of yet. I have a few specific questions and couldnt really find exactly what I was looking for so I figured starting a new post to help a newbie out was ok. I will be engraving on some very small parts, is there a co2 out there that lets you preview the marking area before starting the project like the fibers do? Is it possible to get a decent US co2 with a budget of 8000? If I choose to buy a chinese fiber what are your recommendations and also what sites can I go to to find an imported laser. I could just order straight from amazon for fiber but would I save money going to another site? Again all of your help is greatly appreciated.

[Tim Bateson]

You'll find nearly zero folks here with a decent opinion of Amazon/eBay type lasers. I personally have found the Fiber market somewhat difficult to navigate. My new 50w is currently being assembled by a US company that supports it. I liked the XT a lot but didn't want to hassle with the import and support half way around the world.

For Co2, yes you may well find an Epilog Zing or used Mini at the top of your price range.

[Roy Rollins]

Thanks Tim, other than Craigslist do you know of any good places to start searching for a used laser. I only mentioned amazon because Im seeing they have a 30w fiber Dihorse that looks almost exactly like the Boss Fn.

[Jerome Stanek]

The Boss looks a lot like the one Automation Technologies sells

[Bill George]

Thanks Tim, other than Craigslist do you know of any good places to start searching for a used laser. I only mentioned amazon because Im seeing they have a 30w fiber Dihorse that looks almost exactly like the Boss Fn.

Check with dealers who sell what you want, they do come on Craigslist from time to time. There is one listed in the Sticky above who is a crook so beware. New ones? Spend some time on here searching and you find a lot of recommendations.

[Jacob John]

A Co2 & a Fiber are two VERY different beasts, for very different work. The overlap is minimal. You need to first decide what your product and/or service is before you choose one over the other. Also, the learning curve on the Fiber is massive... without any prior laser working knowledge. Still very steep if you do.

My 2cents - Co2: buy an Epilog or Trotec. Fiber: buy a Chinese product.

How is the learning for fiber curve massive, Tim? My experience with fiber is limited, but I never found it all that difficult the few times I've used one. Can you elaborate?

[Tim Bateson]

How is the learning for fiber curve massive, Tim? My experience with fiber is limited, but I never found it all that difficult the few times I've used one. Can you elaborate?

1. You won't find default settings everywhere like you do with a CO2 Laser. The very few that did come with my M2 were so far off, they weren't even good starting points.
2. Settings for a CO2 are basically Focus, Power, DPI, and Speed. A bit of Frequency when Cutting. A Fiber on the other hand.. you can double that.. which means a multiplier in the number of setting combinations for any given material.
3. Once you find your settings for say Steel. Surprise, different grades of Steel have different settings. All of which you have to discover on your on through trial & mostly error.
4. Take #3, then apply it to all materials... I have (so far) 5 different setups for Aluminum, 4 for Steel, 3 (but I need 5) for Plastics. Haven't even yet touched Bleaching Anodized metal or Cermark.
5. You have at least 3 and maybe up to half dozen types of Engravings & Markings possible on each material, each totally different setups, and add in #3 & 4 above.

[Gary Hair]

and to add on to Tim's post.
CO2, as Tim mentioned, you have Focus, Power, Speed and DPI. The change in look of the mark are pretty obvious and tend to follow a trend - more power usually equals deeper engraving, lower power and lower speed usually equal shallower (but darker on wood) engraving.
A fiber has Focus, Power, Speed, Frequency, Hatch type, Hatch angle, hatch spacing, multiple hatch (you can vary the type, angle, and spacing on up to 3 hatches). The changes in settings are not obvious and do not follow a trend. Most of the time the relationship between the settings are counter-intuitive, especially compared to co2.

If you have very few different materials that you laser with a fiber then the learning curve won't be so bad, but if it varies then you can drive yourself nuts trying to get the right settings. 90% of what I do is either marking anodized aluminum or deep engraving firearms (steel and aluminum), so I have those settings dialed in pretty well for my machines and my typical jobs. Throw in a CZ Scorpion (polymer) that needs deep engraving for an SBR and some embellishments on the surface, and a parkerized slide that needs embellishments, and you will have some time to spend getting the right effect. You don't want to melt the CZ and obliterate the mark and yet you have very little space to do any testing. but hey, it's just another day in the life of an engraver...

1. You won't find default settings everywhere like you do with a CO2 Laser. The very few that did come with my M2 were so far off, they weren't even good starting points.
2. Settings for a CO2 are basically Focus, Power, DPI, and Speed. A bit of Frequency when Cutting. A Fiber on the other hand.. you can double that.. which means a multiplier in the number of setting combinations for any given material.
3. Once you find you settings for say Steel. Surprise, different grades of Steel have different settings. All of which you have to discover on your on through trial & mostly error.
4. Take #3, then apply it to all materials... I have (so far) 5 different setups for Aluminum, 4 for Steel, 3 (but I need 5) for Plastics. Haven't even yet touched Bleaching Anodized metal or Cermark.
5. You have at least 3 and maybe up to half dozen types of Engravings & Markings possible on each material, each totally different setups, and add in #3 & 4 above.

[Tim Bateson]

...Throw in a CZ Scorpion (polymer)...

I've stopped doing these. I have one customer (a gun manufacturer) that I'll do it for (after he insists), and every time tell him I can't guarantee outcome. I'm getting closer every time, but it's still hit or miss on those. It's an add thing. In some ways harder to engrave into than aluminum, but if you are not careful you do get the melting and blow out letters.

Sorry if I have headed this thread in a different direction. Just trying to pass on my lessons learned...or lessons still learning.

[Roy Rollins]

Gary what machine do you use for your slides and anodized aluminum?

[Kev Williams]

Do the CZ's with your C02's. My LS900 does a great job- just need patience because it takes MANY passes...

[Gary Hair]

I use 1500mm speed, 80% power, 40 freq., hatch 45 and 135, .05 spacing. - 20 to 25 passes. Perfect every time! My machine is 30 watts so adjust your power accordingly.

I've stopped doing these. I have one customer (a gun manufacturer) that I'll do it for (after he insists), and every time tell him I can't guarantee outcome. I'm getting closer every time, but it's still hit or miss on those. It's an add thing. In some ways harder to engrave into than aluminum, but if you are not careful you do get the melting and blow out letters.

Sorry if I have headed this thread in a different direction. Just trying to pass on my lessons learned...or lessons still learning.