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Thread: Couple Weeks' Worth of Rust Hunting

  1. #1
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    Couple Weeks' Worth of Rust Hunting

    It's a risky business, what with the potential to contract tetanus and all, but someone's gotta do it. Anyway, since living in an area with good rust hunting prospects for the first time I've caught the bug and have been fortunate to add a few things to my tool collection that I've been looking for without luck for well over a year. And without further ado:

    Attachment 364038
    A nice old bowsaw frame. Wasn't looking for one, haven't ever needed one but this nice old fellow that I established a bit of a relationship with gave it to me for free on the condition that I make some use of it. Maker mark on it says "E.L. Donaldson" which I couldn't get any information on on the interwebnetz but it seems to be well-made except for that nasty twist in the cross-member piece or whatever you call it. Someday I'll try to gently bend it back with some steam. I have a friend who is experienced in bending/straightening wood with heat but he's out of town for a while.
    Attachment 364039
    Before cleaning up top, after cleaning below. I just used saddle soap (it's all I've got on hand right now) and a soft-bristled brush. It didn't get everything off but I don't have any 0000 steel wool or anything similar on hand right now. I just wanted to see what the grain would look like.

    IMG_4250.jpg IMG_4256.jpg
    Look at that sloppy saw work on the tenon shoulder! I've never done anything like that myself.

    Next up, this James Swan 1/8"....mortise chisel? Sure looks like one to me but all the other Swan mortise chisels I've seen have had different socket construction/ferrules. I figured it could be some sort of turning chisel but I know nothing about those. For me it'll probably be a mortise chisel, if I ever find the need to cut a 1/8" mortise.
    IMG_4233.jpgIMG_4235.jpg

    This saw vise is marked "No. 3" but nothing else so I'm not sure who made it. Looks similar to a Stearns. The jaws don't close up perfectly but they're tight enough to function, and better than my previous saw vise, which was nonexistent.
    IMG_4262.jpg


    This box of handles and other...things...was given to me for free. I honestly don't have much use for anything in here but I figured I'd post it up here. If anyone sees anything they might be able to use I'd be more than happy to send it your way if you pay shipping. Otherwise, these will likely become file handles or something similar. The dovetail saw handle looks like it could have belonged to a decent saw, it has split nuts that are beat to hell though. A couple chisel handles could be useful if anyone knows what brand of chisel they went to. The two T-shaped thingies...I have no idea what either is.
    IMG_4248.jpg

    And now the two big, exciting finds!

    IMG_4266.jpgIMG_4268.jpg
    An Edward Carter wedge-arm plow plane with no rust! I've been looking for a decent plow plane for well over a year but they were all either in dismal shape or out of my price range. It's also kind of cool that the maker was in Troy, NY and that's where I got it. This plane probably never left the city. This one just needs a little cleaning up, a repair to one arm that has been screwed back together, and it will then hopefully be a good user for me. I've never used a wooden plow plane so I'm looking forward to the learning experience.

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    More plow plane pics:
    IMG_4270.jpgIMG_4267.jpg

    Detour from the excitement: a Merit miter box. I don't need another miter box nor do I really have the space but it was $5 so hopefully I can find someone who wants it for more than that. It isn't particularly fancy and probably not as precise as the all-metal miter boxes but it has no rust and could make a decent user.
    IMG_4282.jpg

    And the other exciting find:

    A near-mint Stanley No. 7, another plane that's been evading me for well over a year. At $75 its the most I've ever spent on a plane but I couldn't say no given its condition.
    IMG_4283.jpgIMG_4284.jpg

    It's a type 19, which I understand is not quite as sought-after as some of the earlier types like the type 11, so it probably won't get me my membership card for the cool kid neander club. But it seems to be about as well-made as the older planes I have which include a type 11. The casting seems about as good which is the main thing I'm concerned about. The lacquer finish on the handles is hideous if you ask me but that isn't a big issue. The mating surfaces between the body and frog, and frog and iron are kinda rough but that's nothing a little fettling can't fix. We'll see how good the steel is after I get it sharpened. I'm sure it'll make a fine user for a hack like me. On another note, there are 4 holes on the left side of the body, and they're all tapped. I imagine the original owner had some sort of fence for the plane but I can't find any pictures of plane fences that look like they'd fit that hole configuration. Maybe he did what I like to do and spend more time fixing up and playing with the tool than actually using it to make things out of wood.

  3. #3
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    On another note, there are 4 holes on the left side of the body, and they're all tapped. I imagine the original owner had some sort of fence for the plane but I can't find any pictures of plane fences that look like they'd fit that hole configuration.
    Most likely the holes were user installed.

    My #10-1/4 came with a few.

    Sometimes the best laid plans of mice and men end up not working.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
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    Nice Haul, keep at it. If you look in old tackle boxes and buckets of rusty tools, you may start finding blades to use in the plow plane. I have about four that I've found here and there without their plane. People generally have no idea what they are so they cost about 25 cents. You just have to train your own eye to look for them and see them without having to dig through the tetanus pile too much.

    The saw handle in your box is for a keyhole or compass saw, not a dovetail saw. You can steal a replacement blade from a new one or, if you're really looking for a project, cut a piece out of an old handsaw blade, tooth and sharpen it, and there you go. That's not a recommendation, though, as the next one you see will have the blade intact and will cost about a buck. There are some odd things in that box - like the two trammel-looking things in the bottom right, that you should investigate further.

    The chisel is likely a sash mortise chisel, for lightly cutting 1/8" mortises in delicate window sash - so light taps, not pounding. it may just have been intended as a 1/8" bench chisel, but the use is the same. Lathe tools don't normally have sockets or bolstered tangs because you don't drive them from the end (so there doesn't need to be a way to keep the handle from splitting).

    Nice to see some good finds, thanks for the posting
    Karl

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Andersson View Post
    Nice Haul, keep at it. If you look in old tackle boxes and buckets of rusty tools, you may start finding blades to use in the plow plane. I have about four that I've found here and there without their plane. People generally have no idea what they are so they cost about 25 cents. You just have to train your own eye to look for them and see them without having to dig through the tetanus pile too much.

    The saw handle in your box is for a keyhole or compass saw, not a dovetail saw. You can steal a replacement blade from a new one or, if you're really looking for a project, cut a piece out of an old handsaw blade, tooth and sharpen it, and there you go. That's not a recommendation, though, as the next one you see will have the blade intact and will cost about a buck. There are some odd things in that box - like the two trammel-looking things in the bottom right, that you should investigate further.

    The chisel is likely a sash mortise chisel, for lightly cutting 1/8" mortises in delicate window sash - so light taps, not pounding. it may just have been intended as a 1/8" bench chisel, but the use is the same. Lathe tools don't normally have sockets or bolstered tangs because you don't drive them from the end (so there doesn't need to be a way to keep the handle from splitting).

    Nice to see some good finds, thanks for the posting
    Karl
    Compass saw! That makes sense--there isn't a slot for the spine of a backsaw so I was confused about that. One more tool I haven't needed yet but maybe someday I will.

    The two other things at the bottom that you mention are awls--the metal collet screws off and points are stored in the handle. It's the other T-shaped things I really have no idea about.

    I looked up a sash chisel as well and that's gotta be it. I haven't needed a 1/8" mortise chisel yet but maybe someday it'll come in handy.

  6. #6
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    Quick update: more tools! Figured I shouldn't make a new thread since that could get ridiculous. This old fellow had a nice collection of tools that belonged to his grandfather, who was born in the 1880's. He didn't really have much knowledge about tools so he just asked me what I thought fair prices were for it all. The businessman in me is yelling "you idiot!" right now for not making a lowball offer for the whole pile but this gentleman was very nice and I didn't wanna screw him over so I went through the whole pile and told him what he had, and what most of the items might be worth. He had a few things that are pretty nice like a nearly-mint condition 28" Simonds 5PPI rip saw, a few Bailey planes in great shape, etc. I still made out pretty good though, and he was generous since I helped him figure out what he had.

    Without further ado:

    A 12" Richardson backsaw. 12PPI crosscut. Pretty good shape overall, it's got an S-shaped bend in the plate but the spine looks straight and I'm hoping that a little retensioning will straight the plate back out. The handle isn't very finely-shaped in my opinion but the finish is in decent shape so I'm not gonna touch it. It's good enough for a hack like me.
    fullsizeoutput_62b.jpg

    A 10" Dunn dovetail saw. As it is now the teeth are about 12PPI which is too coarse in my mind so I'll probably reshape it to 16PPI or so. It has split nuts (missing one unfortunately) so it might be pretty old. Looks pretty straight but the spine is tapped down too far. Shouldn't be a problem to fix.
    fullsizeoutput_62c.jpgfullsizeoutput_62a.jpg

    A Stanley No. 18 block plane with the newer, better-designed knuckle cap. I have a really old No. 18 with the older-style knuckle cap, and this is the first time I've gotten my hands on one with the newer-style knuckle cap design. The latter is a pretty cool little mechanism, and definitely more secure than the old style. It does put quite a bit of pressure on the iron so I'll have to be careful lest I bend an iron or even apply enough pressure to crack the casting maybe.
    IMG_0407.jpg

    A 6" rosewood try square in pretty good shape. Now I'll finally be able to come to some conclusions on the whole try square vs combo square fiasco I started earlier.
    fullsizeoutput_62f.jpg

    And perhaps the most unique tool for this particular forum: a no-name but very well-made broad axe. I'm no expert but I've read a decent amount about how to hew beams with a broad axe and dabbled in it myself. Hewing axes, or broad axes, are meant to be nearly dead flat on one side and only beveled on one side. I'd explain but it's probably easier to just look up a video of hewing on youtube. One thing I've learned though, is that the "flat" side should not be dead flat ideally. As you can see in this axe, there's a slight and consistent curve on the flat side--this makes it a lot easier to keep the axe close to the face you're hewing and the cutting motion closer to parallel with the face so that you can take nice, shallow bites without "barking your knuckles" as they say.
    In other words, this axe was probably made by a skilled craftsman who really knew well what a broad axe should look like. Most of the broad axes I've come across are dead flat on the flat side, and a good portion of them have been ground on both sides of the bit like a normal axe--not good!
    fullsizeoutput_62e.jpgfullsizeoutput_62d.jpg

  7. #7
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    Your hewing hatchet's general shape looks a lot like one I found:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tate-Sale-Find

    There may be a mark under the patina.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Your hewing hatchet's general shape looks a lot like one I found:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tate-Sale-Find

    There may be a mark under the patina.

    jtk
    IMG_4318.jpg
    Quick rubbing with some penetrating oil and steel wool--doesn't look like a maker's mark is gonna pop up anywhere but there is a number "3" in the middle of the axe head. I know some axes were sold with a sticker or paper label on them rather than a stamped maker's mark so that could be the case here.

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    Good price for a jointer plane if in decent condition...You did well on that Stanley #7.....
    Jerry

  10. Where did you find it at in Troy? The weekend farmers market on the waterfront?

  11. #11
    Couple of nice hauls. Next time you come down to Troy you should cross the river and head over to Albany for a visit. I've all but quit rust hunting because I've run out of room. I've acquired several of the Edward Carter planes and a bunch of Crannell planes (he was a plane maker in Albany)

  12. #12
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    Matt,

    You did well! The plow plane looks really like a find.

    A couple of thoughts. You can find new replacement key hole saw blades at a lumber yard, at least quite often, and possibly at a good old time hardware store. Key hole saw blades sometimes live a rough life. They are thin, get used roughly, get bent and kinked, so they used to be stocked as a regular hardware item. I think you should have no trouble finding one if you just look a bit. I just took a glance, and there are several listed on that auction site. If you buy a replacement blade make sure it is of the type that fits your handle, there are different styles of mounts, and most are not interchangeable I think.

    If you have a choice, a shorter rather than a longer blade, is the way to go in my opinion. The length is not always needed, usually a shorter blade has all the length you need for most jobs, and the extra length of the longer blade makes it easier to bend a kink the blade. If you want, and find a choice, you may want one of each.

    Your key hole saw handle is a graceful thing, not like the crude imitations of handles that you primarily see now, so I hope you find a blade. Very old stock is better than the newer stuff I think, at least for fine woodworking.

    For what it's worth, the makers know that the key hole saws often live a rough life, so they take that into consideration, and at least the one I bought many years ago is softer than I would like, so it bends rather than breaks. It also has teeth that have too low of a point count than I would like. Key hole saws replacement blades were made for carpentry hacks like myself, not for fine woodworkers, primarily, so they take it for granted that the blade will get bent and kinked....so they make them softer and thicker than what a fine woodworker would like.

    Stanley #7, type 19: I have a type 19 #5 that was my dads. If yours is like mine, quality wise, you have a very good user plane. The type 19's are not as dearly loved by some of us as are some of the older Stanley Bailey planes, and I like best the ones made between about 1910 and about 1930, but the basics of very good user planes are still there. Gone is the frog adjuster assembly, and gone are the rose wood knob and tote, but those are not the critical pieces, and in the case of the tote and knob, the are an appearance issue only.

    Guys like Jim have learned to adjust the frog like they did back before the frog adjustment screw set up was invented...with very light taps of a light hammer or very light mallet with the hold down machine screws slightly loose until it was in exactly the right spot, and then tightened down. Jim has written on this site that it is not a disadvantage to have the older type, and so you can make the frog adjustment just exactly the way it was done more than 100 years ago. That method still works just fine.

    A bigger factor is that the top of the frog, where the iron sets, is skeletonized rather than the flat milled solid surface of the much earlier planes, but that is not a huge issue either, and those types can still be very good user planes. I think the type 19 was the last really good plane Stanley made before the "new management strength" ruined the Stanley plane as a woodworking tool.

    I am also in agreement with the above posters on your Swan 1/8" chisel. The handle on that chisel is the type of handle you find on a parring chisel, not a firmer or mortise chisel. They make (or used to make) the 1/8" parring chisels with extra thick blades because the blade was not very wide, so they were made that way for extra strength. That is a beautiful parring chisel, and I am glad you decided not to beat on it. By the way, I see a lot more firmer chisels in the 1/4" size than parring chisel, so in my view you have a real find in that 1/4" parring chisels, and Swan chisels are highly desirable...good find...what I am saying is "ya did good!"

    Stew
    Last edited by Stew Denton; 08-06-2017 at 4:09 PM.

  13. #13
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    From the doctor's log: The infection appears to have taken a turn for the worse. Patient is no longer able to control his impulses. The living room is slowly being transformed into the tool room.

    Some of the more exciting finds from recent weeks:


    A Stanley auger bit depth stop! Is it necessary? Not really. Does it work much better than just using masking tape? Eh, I suppose. But it sure is fun to play with. Cool design.


    A full set of Irwin auger bits! In mint condition! The box says "One US Navy Auger Bit Set" on the side. From what I've read it sounds like these could be as new as the 1960's. But solid information is lacking. Doesn't matter much to me anyway--they work well.

    fullsizeoutput_63c.jpg fullsizeoutput_63b.jpg
    An Atkins 5ish PPI rip saw! Look at the lamb's tongue on the handle. From my brief research I think it is a No. 54. There's still a lot of shiny metal under some of the rust, the etch looks like it'll be pretty visible when the plate gets cleaned up. I don't know if I'll keep it but I'll have fun restoring it at least, and it'll make a great saw when it's finished.

    IMG_4471.jpg
    This find is particularly exciting to me. I have an old Wards Master miter box (basically a Stanley 2358) that I did a full restoration on, and I really love the design, but it is missing a few parts like roller bearings, the tree that holds the guide rods, and a spring clip. I've been looking for well over a year but haven't found anything except for the parts that are on ebay for ridiculous prices ($20-30 for a single roller bearing). When I saw this pile I bought the entire thing off the guy without thinking twice for $100. I may have gotten a little over-excited about the value and rarity of these parts due to my own personal experience looking for them but oh well. I bet I can at least get my money out of what I sell. Most of what is in this picture is up for sale in the classifieds right now.

    IMG_4496.jpg
    This one is crazy. Found this Veritas honing guide at a random flea market for $4! The angle guide jig and a Veritas jointer fence were sitting in a box marked "free" because the guy didn't know what they were. Snagged those up real quick. Hopefully this thing will work better than my tuned-up cheapo honing guide for certain applications. Either way it'll be fun to learn how to use it.

    IMG_4503.jpg
    A Hold-Fast bevel gauge with a pretty cool little locking mechanism. Unfortunately the washer thingy around the screw doesn't quite lay perfectly flat when it's locked so I can't lay the bevel down on that side, which would be convenient for certain things, but I might be able to fettle this thing a little bit and make it lay dead flat on both sides. If not, it's still a nice bevel gauge. Rosewood and brass.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Matthew Hutchinson477; 08-10-2017 at 4:15 PM.

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    IMG_4500.jpg IMG_4502.jpgIMG_4501.jpg
    Question time. What the hell is this thing? It is etched "Flemish" and beneath that "Germany". I assume the latter is the country of manufacture but I can't find a tool company or anything like that called "Flemish". The edge is beveled to a point but it isn't super sharp. The steel does appear to be hardened. I figure it could be a scraper of some sort but I bought it because it looks like a perfect candidate for a saw nut driver--the blade is thin and wide enough to fit very well into the saw nuts on a Disston D-8. I was planning on filing a notch out of the middle for split nuts but I wanted to make sure I'm not ruining something more useful for another task before I do that.

  15. #15
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    IMG_4523.jpg
    Above is an older 60-1/2 with black japanning that I just picked up, next to my current user with navy blue japanning. Notice the difference in casting thickness, and more importantly the difference in the iron mating surface. On my blue plane the iron is bedded on a lot less metal than on the older one. It's commonly said that Stanley planes with blue japanning are of lower quality than their older counterparts, and it's obvious with the bench planes, but a lot of folks I've talked to or read online have said that the drop in quality didn't affect block planes so much. Maybe the more robust iron mating surface on the older one won't make a noticeable difference but my bet is that it will.

    IMG_4526.jpg IMG_4527.jpg
    A W. Butcher 2 lb adze. I've come across plenty of adzes over the past couple years but never one this size. The railroad adzes always got cleaned up and sold to fund my...habits...but this one I think I'll at least try to learn how to use. It'll be a fun new skill to learn and hopefully an adze this size will end up having some use.

    IMG_4531.jpg IMG_4525.jpg IMG_4535.jpg
    Still can't figure out how to rotate photographs on this forum, so I apologize for the awkwardness. Anyway, this might be the most valuable find I've had to date. I don't really need a 5-1/2 and at this point I remain unconvinced that the Bedrock planes are really that much better than the regular Bailey's but it's a 605-1/2 C which I've never seen before so I couldn't pass it up. Bedrock planes have recently been selling for less on ebay than they were a year or so ago, so it might not be quite as valuable as I thought when I first laid eyes on it so I'm tempted to keep it even though I don't particularly need a plane this size. The experimenting and comparing will be fun if nothing else. The front knob isn't an original-it's a black-painted knob from a later plane-but that isn't a big deal. What really caught my interest on this plane is the surface left from what I assume was some pervasive surface rust at one point. I've never seen anything like it. It's pebbly and rough but pretty uniform. If it was derusted by a previous owner it was a while ago because it's developed a decent amount of patina. I actually kind of like it. It's unique. The sole will have to be lapped, and the frog needs a lot of work but I plan on leaving the sides in the shape they're in. I wish I could find out just how this surface came to be. Anyone ever seen anything like this?

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