Question about copyright

[Brian W Evans]

Suppose a client brings you an image to engrave that you know is copyrighted, trademarked, or otherwise protected. Do you engrave it for the customer?

Does it matter if they are asking you to engrave several / hundreds / thousands instead of one?

I used to work at a Kinko's copy center and we wouldn't make copies of anything we knew to be copyrighted. I always thought the company was being overly cautious but, if not, would I be correct in assuming the same thing applies to engraving?

If you don't engrave protected images, etc., how much responsibility do feel you have for finding out whether or not something is protected?

I'm not looking for actual legal advice, just curious about common practices.

[John Lifer]

I am new to the game, but no. I've had several requests from Arkansas razorback items. I have a couple of images that are not licensed images, thise are the only ones I've done and sold. It costs a Benjamin per year to license as crafter. I might do it at some point, but nit right now.

[Gary Hair]

No, never. I don't hesitate to tell the customer that it can't be done. It doesn't matter if it's one or ten thousand, I'm not willing to take any chances even if there is 0% chance of getting caught. There is plenty of money to be made that is 100% legit.

[Bert McMahan]

Hopefully not too much of a tangent from the original post, but say a job was big enough that you wanted to go legit with it. Do you just start calling legal departments asking about licensing, or is there a better way to do things?

[Robert Bonenfant]

If you know the item is copyrighted or has a trademark do not make the item, doesn't matter how large the purchase order. You are knowingly manufacturing illegal goods and can get in alot of trouble and be forced to pay fines, damages and in most cases you would be required to destroy any and all inventory relating to the protected item, Ive been down this road cost me $5000 and I was lucky that was it. Like Gary said "There is plenty of money to be made that is 100% legit". Sure there is a chance you might not get caught making a few products but why risk your business for a few extra $$$ in sales.

In most cases you can get in contact with a Trademark owner by Email or a simple phone call (I did this last week to use a font for production) - Some ask for money to be able to use there copyright, some just want there name posted as the creator. Some will say no but its worth a shot to ask.

Bert are you trying to sell the product ? or is someone walking into your shop and saying hey make ten thousand of these ? If your trying to manufacturer and sell the product, than you would be required to contact the trademarks owner.
If your customer is selling the item and only using you as a manufacturer than they should make the call and setup the licensing deals. It can get sticky if you sell to a unauthorized reseller.

[Charles Wiggins]

Penalties for copyright infringement include civil and criminal penalties. In general, anyone found liable for civil copyright infringement may be ordered to pay either actual damages or "statutory" damages affixed at not less than $750 and not more than $30,000 per work infringed. For "willful" infringement, a court may award up to $150,000 per work infringed. A court can, in its discretion, also assess costs and attorneys' fees. For details, see Title 17, United States Code, Sections 504, 505.
Willful copyright infringement can also result in criminal penalties, including imprisonment of up to five years and fines of up to $250,000 per offense.

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

[Mike Null]

My personal practices may be different than others but generally, I avoid even doing onesies of major league sports teams, Disney related items, Harley Davidson items. I do accept onesies for college teams even though I know they are protected but I do not do quantities. I had used some Greek symbols on my web site and was in a two year argument with the firm contracted to protect those symbols. I finally agreed to remove them from my web site. I was able to continue with the ones I had under contract but they just asked that I cease and desist using the others.

We had a civilized and courteous dialogue during this time. Since I do not invite retail business I get very few requests to do copyrighted work from those who do not have authorization to use it.

[Clark Pace]

Also. Have a customer sign a paper before the works. 1. If a customer brings in their own thing to be engraved . You are not responsible if something happens and the item does not turn out right. Especially if you have samples to test first and second. Some images are hard to know if this they are copyrighted. If so have them sign that they have the rights to let you do it. Of course some images may be obvious. Other not

[Bert McMahan]

If you know the item is copyrighted or has a trademark do not make the item, doesn't matter how large the purchase order. You are knowingly manufacturing illegal goods and can get in alot of trouble and be forced to pay fines, damages and in most cases you would be required to destroy any and all inventory relating to the protected item, Ive been down this road cost me $5000 and I was lucky that was it. Like Gary said "There is plenty of money to be made that is 100% legit". Sure there is a chance you might not get caught making a few products but why risk your business for a few extra $$$ in sales.

In most cases you can get in contact with a Trademark owner by Email or a simple phone call (I did this last week to use a font for production) - Some ask for money to be able to use there copyright, some just want there name posted as the creator. Some will say no but its worth a shot to ask.

Bert are you trying to sell the product ? or is someone walking into your shop and saying hey make ten thousand of these ? If your trying to manufacturer and sell the product, than you would be required to contact the trademarks owner.
If your customer is selling the item and only using you as a manufacturer than they should make the call and setup the licensing deals. It can get sticky if you sell to a unauthorized reseller.

Robert, I had an opportunity to make a reasonably sized (for me) run of some doodads with commercial property on them a while back. I certainly didn't do it but I did try to get in touch with the company's legal department to get a license. They ended up saying "no" but I was mainly wondering about the process itself; it often seems like emails to the "contact us" address on websites just go into a black hole for questions like this.

I'm not trying to find a way to sneak in some production, I'm just trying to find out how to do these things the *right* way. The way I tried last time was me contacting a non-lawyer company rep, who tried to talk to their merch team, who tried to talk to their lawyers... and it seems like there HAS to be an easier way to do this.

Etsy is rampant with people producing things without proper licensing and I'd love to sell things on there, but even if the odds are minuscule that I'd get caught I'd rather just make money the legit way.

The job I was talking about was from a year or so back. I could've made a few grand on it (a massive job for someone dorking around in my basement!) had I just done it without licensing but of course I didn't.

[Matt McCoy]

Some IP owners will have a link on their website to get in contact about licensing, but you might have to be persistent, especially if they get inundated with requests.

Marketplaces, like Etsy, are rampant with IP infringement. They have a DMCA policy, which requires the original holder to file a take-down notice. Some holders will do sweeps, from time to time, which whack a little off the top, but there are 10 more copycats waiting to fill the gap. If caught, you likely will not be able to sell on their marketplace after a few violations. There are members that will also report violators to the original IP holder.

[Bruce Clumpner]

As the holder of 5 collegiate licenses, the U.S. Service Academies, I know it's a PITA to finally get things figured out with the license holder or their management company. The overhead of managing a license once issued is also a bit tedious, what with reporting and royalty payments. But once that's done, it a great way to build a relationship with the organization. Being licensed has opened doors that normally would not have been available if I was just cold-calling, looking for business. I'd suggest taking the time to make it work, as it's worth it in the end, specially if you're connected as an alumn, family or fan ...

So for example, while not a laser product, here's a shot of one of our bronze plaques sitting in the head football coach's office at West Point! No way could we have developed a relationship there without the approval the license provides...
-Coaches office.jpg

Happy to provide any help in the process if needed.

[Mike Null]

My first step on something like that is with the customer. He should get the approval for you. If he is not a representative of the company in question then the answer is easy.

[Brian W Evans]

My personal practices may be different than others but generally, I avoid even doing onesies of major league sports teams, Disney related items, Harley Davidson items. I do accept onesies for college teams even though I know they are protected but I do not do quantities. I had used some Greek symbols on my web site and was in a two year argument with the firm contracted to protect those symbols. I finally agreed to remove them from my web site. I was able to continue with the ones I had under contract but they just asked that I cease and desist using the others.

We had a civilized and courteous dialogue during this time. Since I do not invite retail business I get very few requests to do copyrighted work from those who do not have authorization to use it.

Mike,

I'm surprised that Greek symbols are protected. Are we talking about Greek letters as in fraternities and sororities? It seems like those couldn't / shouldn't be protected. Did the firm want to sue Socrates as well?

[Brian W Evans]

As the holder of 5 collegiate licenses, the U.S. Service Academies, I know it's a PITA to finally get things figured out with the license holder or their management company. The overhead of managing a license once issued is also a bit tedious, what with reporting and royalty payments. But once that's done, it a great way to build a relationship with the organization. Being licensed has opened doors that normally would not have been available if I was just cold-calling, looking for business. I'd suggest taking the time to make it work, as it's worth it in the end, specially if you're connected as an alumn, family or fan ...

So for example, while not a laser product, here's a shot of one of our bronze plaques sitting in the head football coach's office at West Point! No way could we have developed a relationship there without the approval the license provides...


Happy to provide any help in the process if needed.

Bruce,

Does your license allow you to make one-off stuff for anyone who comes in or is there some sort of approval process you have to go through with the academies before you can make something?

[Bruce Clumpner]

Most of our product designs are pre-approved, but I've build some customization into the designs. So for yeti-like tumblers we can add personalization, or for award plaques, we can add info on the award and it's recipient. There are ways to work with the design process.