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Thread: Is there a hard finish that can go over a previous wax finish?

  1. #1

    Is there a hard finish that can go over a previous wax finish?

    I have a customer who wants to buy one of my completed bowls, but wants a hard/durable/low maintenance finish on it. Problem is, I finished it 6 months ago with eee ultra shine and a bit of walnut oil.

    the customer wants a "hard finish" because the bowl will be handled daily in her classroom and she doesn't want to have to reapply oil or wax to keep it shiny/glossy.

    My guess is that shellac might be the only option but I've never put shellac over eee.... bad idea? Will a sanding sealer stick to a wax based finish? The eee ultra shine is buffed in, so that's what has me most concerned.

    Any education on this matter would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    I've read in a few places that oil based polyurethane has the best chance of sticking to wax, but I don't think it's an ideal situation. If you're able to sand it bare and then refinish it, I think that's your best bet. It can be difficult to get all the wax off. Scrubbing with scotch brite and mineral spirits or acetone in addition to sanding might help.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett Ostroff View Post
    I've read in a few places that oil based polyurethane has the best chance of sticking to wax, but I don't think it's an ideal situation. If you're able to sand it bare and then refinish it, I think that's your best bet. It can be difficult to get all the wax off. Scrubbing with scotch brite and mineral spirits or acetone in addition to sanding might help.
    Oil based NON-Poly varnish is a possibility, but not polyurethane which has trouble sticking to itself... Shellac is also a possibility as the OP has noted.

    That said, I personally feel that the "customer" has unrealistic expectations if she wants the bowl to stay pristine in that environment, even with a film finish. A renewable surface like you already provided will develop a patina from use. A film finish, no matter how "durable" is going to get scratched, etc., and is much harder to repair. Further a "hard" finish isn't necessarily more durable. Shellac is a good example. It's a hard finish when cured. But as a hard finish, it can get cracked and scratched by physical blows. (Shellac can also be easily repaired as compared to many varnishes, however, because it can be re-dissolved by its solvent)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
    I would wipe the bowl with mineral spirits. This will remove much of the surface wax. Then I'd apply a coat of dewaxed shellac. Finally, I'd apply oil based polyurethane.

    The shellac alone will scratch and look bad if handled frequently. Use poly as the top coat. Wipe on Poly will be easy to apply, and will be plenty durable.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Oil based NON-Poly varnish is a possibility, but not polyurethane which has trouble sticking to itself... Shellac is also a possibility as the OP has noted.

    That said, I personally feel that the "customer" has unrealistic expectations if she wants the bowl to stay pristine in that environment, even with a film finish. A renewable surface like you already provided will develop a patina from use. A film finish, no matter how "durable" is going to get scratched, etc., and is much harder to repair. Further a "hard" finish isn't necessarily more durable. Shellac is a good example. It's a hard finish when cured. But as a hard finish, it can get cracked and scratched by physical blows. (Shellac can also be easily repaired as compared to many varnishes, however, because it can be re-dissolved by its solvent)
    I agree with you, Jim. I tried to explain this, but the customer wants what they want so I thought I'd ask as I have never tried to put anything on a project after using the EEE and oil. I figured there wasn't anything that would stick, but maybe someone has had success with a magic formula I've never heard of!? ��

    I think I'll try some testing and see what happens but in the short term, I suspect I'll just offer to turn her a new bowl...

  6. #6
    IMHO, oil based polyurethane will hold up fine. The sheen may dull a little over time as it gets naturally 'rubbed out' but polyurethane resists these scratches even better than some other varnishes, IMHO.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    IMHO, oil based polyurethane will hold up fine. The sheen may dull a little over time as it gets naturally 'rubbed out' but polyurethane resists these scratches even better than some other varnishes, IMHO.
    Agree, but it will require good prep and a barrier coat to insure proper adhesion.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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