Gap Between the Top of a Kitchen Wall Cabinet and the Bottom of the Soffit

[Bob Deroeck]

Hi,

I've been planning for years to make kitchen cabinets for my house. But, reality is setting in. My back and arms are saying "are you kidding?". My wife's almost infinite patience is dissipating and showing that "almost" does apply. So, I'm capitulating to reality and buying custom-built cabinets.

I'm in the process of designing the cabinets, along with the cabinet maker's in-house designer. They will be face frame cabinets with inset doors and drawers, cherry with natural finish. Face frame, doors and drawer fronts will be Mission style. The kitchen is U-shaped with a soffit over all the cabinets. The top of the wall cabinets will butt against the bottom of the soffit, as much as the "out-of-level" soffit will allow. That brings me to my primary question. How to handle to gap between the bottom of the soffit and the top of the wall cabinets?

The soffit is a maximum of 3/4" out-of-level along the run of wall cabinets. I don't want the heavy look of a built up crown type moulding along the top of the wall cabinets. I was thinking about installing a simple small moulding to cover the gap above the cabinets. I'm leaning towards either a simple plain strip (Maybe 1-2" high and 3/8 - 1/2" deep) in keeping with the Mission style or a small shoe or cove moulding. I'm open to any and all suggestions on how to deal with this situation.

The designer has proposed a top rail for the face-frame of the wall cabinets which is 1 1/4" high. My concern is that such a narrow rail will highlight the out-of-level situation, regardless of the type of moulding I decide to use. If I choose the simple small moulding I described above with, say, a 1" high x 3/8" deep plain strip, then at the low point of the soffit 1/4" of the top rail would be visible below the moulding compared to 1" at the high point of the soffit. I suspect that would look pretty bad. I'm considering two possibilities to reduce the visible impact of this out-of-level. First, increase the height of the top rail to, say, 3". This would increase the visible top rail below the moulding to 2 1/4" at the soffit low point and 3" at the soffit high point. I'm guessing this would de-emphasize the visible impact of the out-of-level compared to 1 1/4" high top rail design.

Second, the soffit bottoms are relatively flat, just out-of-level (sloping either upwards or downwards). So, I could taper the moulding strip height so that about half of the out-of-level is seen on the top rail exposure and the other half on the height of the molding strip. I haven't explained this very well. I'll try to give an example. If a 3" high top rail is used and a 1 1/2 high simple moulding strip, then the moulding strip would taper from 1 1/2" high at the high point of the soffit to 1 1/8" high at the low point of the soffit. This would split the visible impact of the 3/4" out-of-level with half on the moulding strip itself and half on the visible height of the top rail. I'm not sure whether this approach of tapering the height of the moulding strip would be effective for de-emphasizing the visible impact of the out-of-level.

Again, any and all suggestions are welcome.

I can play around with different options for the moulding once I install the cabinets. But, for now, I do need to finalize the height of the top rail.

Thanks.

Bob

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with your choices. Sounds like the designer is new to this line of work. Rather than one strip ,I would use two .One overlapping the other to show an even rabbet type reveal. Just expiriment with some strips of wood to get the best dimensions.

[Peter Christensen]

I think you are going about this the wrong way. You are going to be spending many thousands on a new kitchen and are trying to make the old and new fit a compromise. It it were me, when I ripped out the old cabinets I would be taking the bottom drywall off the soffits, shimming to straight and level, and then putting new drywall on while the rest of the walls are being cleaned, patched and painted. Even if you have to pay a someone to do the work, that amount will be small in comparison to the new cabinets, probably new appliances and fixtures, flooring and whatever else you are adding. It will also make for a much easier install and you will then end up with a clean even trim along the cabinet tops. I know money isn't gushing from our pockets but there are times when getting the basics right is money well spent.

I'm not trying to chew you out but giving you another option.

[Ted Reischl]

Why save the soffitts? They are sooooo 1970's.

Plus, you get more cabinet space when they are gone.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Bob:

I agree with Peter.

Being in the "final stages" (my wife has been extremely patient) of our remodeled kitchen (plywood boxes; cherry face frames; cherry inset doors and drawers all made in my hobby shop), I relate to the challenge you are facing. We chose to have cabinets installed about 4 inches from the ceiling and I am trying to wrap up the project: top moldings and toe kicks. If I was to change something to the approach we used it would probably be to build soffits and butt the cabinets against them (as you are proposing to do). In my mind spending time and effort on the "new soffit" (ie flat and level) will save you a lot of time and trouble afterward.

Hope this helps!

Jacques

[Andrew Hughes]

I agree take the soffit out. Plus you might find hidden treasures

[johnny means]

You could vary the cabinet heights and depths. This would create a more "custom" look, as well as obfuscate the soffit's issues.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Why save the soffitts? They are sooooo 1970's.

Plus, you get more cabinet space when they are gone.

I agree take the soffit out. Plus you might find hidden treasures

I've overhauled 2 or 6 old houses and if they had kitchen soffits - - the soffit was full. Some just had insulation. Some were there to hide every utility in the house - HVAC, gas, water, and electric.

I'd suggest you take a peek thru a small hole before you commit to removal. Or, take a look from the attic if accessible.

[Jim Becker]

I also agree with either removing the soffits or rebuilding them "level" if they are required to hide pipe/duct. The other alternative is to design the cabinets so they are slightly taller and can be scribed to the non-level soffits as they are being installed.

[Mel Fulks]

Removing the soffit is certainly worth exploring. I think you are dealing with a "sales lady", not a designer.

[Nike Nihiser]

You don't get more cabinet space unless you pay for bigger cabinets:-)

[Jim Dwight]

I've built a set of kitchen cabinets but it takes a very patient wife which is not what I currently have. So I have a bunch of semi-custom cabinets in the garage waiting for the flooring guy to finish the floors. We removed the soffits to gain cabinet space. That increases the cost of the cabinets a little if you go to 42 inch cabinets and a lot more if you use 12 inch on top of 30 inch like we are (for appearance reasons).

I would definitely not spend a lot of time trying to make new cabinets work with old, poorly constructed soffits. Remove them or fix them. They also do not have to be drywall. The ones we tore out were plywood. There was some stupid wiring behind them but it came out easily.

[Marc Jeske]

My main thought is - The wider the topmost rail, the less you'll see the slope.

1 1/4" seems crazy small, especially when you have an up to 3/4" deviation. Marc

[Brian Holcombe]

3/4" is huge, I agree with those who say to remove or repair the soffit. There is no molding that is going to make that appear correct.

Not all soffits are removable. I'm building kitchen cabinets currently and the soffit is actually 12" thick of 2x12's that the original builder installed for some reason.

[Bill Dufour]

Another vote for repair or remove the soffits. Any test holes drill from the bottom of the soffit so they do not have to be patched if they can not come out.
To rebuild I would rip a 2x2, the long way, at the angle needed and screw it in place. Then a quick wash of drywall compound on the face to match the texture. After the cabinets are installed only the face of the soffit will show so no need to level the entire bottom face of the existing soffit.
Unless you like climbing ladders I would leave the soffit in place. Most people have a hard time getting stuff in and out of the top cabinets with kitchen counters pushing your torso away from the wall. If you leave a blank space above the cabinets the 3/4" difference will not be noticeable but it will be hard to clean up there.
Bill