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Thread: Dust Extraction Duct Routing - High or Low?

  1. #16
    Regards to your question about air compressor, I purchased the smallest oil lubricated air compressor I could find, and it works fine for me. One cylinder, big enough to run staplers and brad nailers, even a framing nailer, but you might have to wait for it to catch up after shooting several nails, even works with my tire machine, although breaking beads makes it run constantly.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrew View Post
    ...you might have to wait for it to catch up after shooting several nails...
    For me that would be an unacceptable deficiency.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Leland, NC
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    476
    I have had DC up and down. I learned my lesson.

    The lesson is: If you can run low to machines that will make splinters (like a narrow piece that gets sucked into the TS) do so. Those splinters will get hung up eventually and fixing things up on the ceiling is not fun. If it is just dust, like off a sander, high works fine. If you use larger forstner bits, those chips are NOTORIOUS for clogging things up.

    The other thing I learned is to NOT run grounding wire inside the ductwork. Bad. Just plain bad. What was I thinking? Oh, I remember now, I was new to woodworking and some "expert" told me that worked really well.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Germany
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    I'm still chugging along with my shop build. So far, the walls have been painted, the electrical panel installed, and the electrical raceway is almost finished. Once I install the receptacles, I'll add the wiring and terminate both ends. The top row of breakers are four 3-phase C16 breakers. The bottom row are a mix of C16 and B16 single-phase breakers.



    For now, the equipment is stacked in the middle of the room while I install the electrical and ducting. The Minimax SC2 Classic is still mostly disassembled in the middle of the room. I had to remove the cast iron top and concrete counterbalance from the saw chassis in order for us to maneuver the saw down the stairs. The concrete counterbalance was the heaviest item to move (it's under the hand tools in the photo below).



    The 120mm ducting will be ordered tomorrow and should be delivered next week. I changed my mind on the DC blower, and will be using a Bernardo RV 350 blower instead of the salvaged blower from my Bernardo DC 350. The RV 350 has a larger impeller and a 3HP motor. I'm driving to a Bernardo distributor in Polch tomorrow (near Koblenz) to exchange my DC 350 for the RV 350. The RV 350 inlet is 150mm (5.9 inches), which is a better fit for the 6-inch outlet of the steel Oneida Super Dust Deputy.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kreinhop View Post
    I'm still chugging along with my shop build. . . . I'm driving to a Bernardo distributor in Polch tomorrow (near Koblenz) . . . .
    Until this post I didn't catch on that you were in Germany. I'm headed that way in two weeks for a two week tour that starts in Frankfurt, heads south- Heidelberg, Black Forrest, Schwangau- then loops back up- Oberammergau, Munich, Rothenburg, Dresden- and ends in Berlin.

    It is really too bad you have that big beam in the way. Unless you drop the duct down everywhere which gets you under the lights too or just where the beam is located which may not be possible either, it is pretty hard to run diagonal ducts in your shop. That is much better than running the duct around the perimeter, but you can only do what you can do. One thing you can do to lower the height of a cyclone, is to configure it as a push-through- I've been doing that for almost 20 years. In addition to lowering the overall height, another advantage is you don't need an airtight dust drum- an ordinary plastic trash bag will do. I've got the height though I have a long cone (3D) cyclone.






  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Schaffter View Post
    Until this post I didn't catch on that you were in Germany. I'm headed that way in two weeks for a two week tour that starts in Frankfurt, heads south- Heidelberg, Black Forrest, Schwangau- then loops back up- Oberammergau, Munich, Rothenburg, Dresden- and ends in Berlin.
    When you leave Frankfurt for Heidelberg, you'll pass within a few kilometers of my house. You are hitting great spots on your tour! Some of my friends come to Germany from time to time, and I take them to some of the places you'll visit. They will usually visit for a week and want to see everything, but don't appreciate the distances, driving time, and occasional stau (traffic jam) that could take hours to clear. You have an ambitious schedule for two weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Schaffter View Post
    It is really too bad you have that big beam in the way. Unless you drop the duct down everywhere which gets you under the lights too or just where the beam is located which may not be possible either, it is pretty hard to run diagonal ducts in your shop. That is much better than running the duct around the perimeter, but you can only do what you can do. One thing you can do to lower the height of a cyclone, is to configure it as a push-through- I've been doing that for almost 20 years. In addition to lowering the overall height, another advantage is you don't need an airtight dust drum- an ordinary plastic trash bag will do. I've got the height though I have a long cone (3D) cyclone.
    Unfortunately, I have to work in the space available. I picked up my new blower this afternoon, and I think it will work fine. The input to the blower just fits into the top of the cyclone, so a little gasketing and some metallic ducting tape should ensure an airtight seal.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kreinhop View Post
    When you leave Frankfurt for Heidelberg, you'll pass within a few kilometers of my house. You are hitting great spots on your tour! Some of my friends come to Germany from time to time, and I take them to some of the places you'll visit. They will usually visit for a week and want to see everything, but don't appreciate the distances, driving time, and occasional stau (traffic jam) that could take hours to clear. You have an ambitious schedule for two weeks.
    We are actually traveling with Tauck, a US tour company. This is our 8th trip with them. We really don't spend much time in Frankfurt, so we are going a day early and have arranged a walking tour. From there we head to St. Goarshausen and travel by boat to Rüdesheim before heading back to Frankfurt. The next day we go to Heidelberg before heading to Hotel Traube Tonbach in the Black Forest. Unfortunately we have already seen some of the sights on the southern portion of the trip (Oberammergau, Linderhof, Munich) when we did Tauck's Alps & Dolomites tour a few years ago.

  8. #23
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    May 2017
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    It's time to update this thread. Between work and frequent travels out of the country, I finished the electrical distribution, dust collection ducting, and the dust collection blower assembly. The only remaining tasks are to build the blower output box for the Wynn 35 series filters, install the differential pressure gauge for the filters, install the exhaust port in the DC closet, and tie up a few loose ends. Then I can finish assembling my shop equipment, have the Minimax saw commissioned, and start building cabinets and shelves.

    Here is a picture of the blower assembly. It's in a 1 x 2 meter closet and will also contain the air compressor, which is still in my garage. I installed the German equivalent of Unistrut to the wall and attached everything to the channel. This allows me to make one permanent connection to the house and still have the ability to change hardware later. I still need to attach the bungee cords to the 35-gallon dust bin, but the suction holds it on well enough that I can pick it up when I lift the plywood cover.


    DC_System-1
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr


    Here is a closeup of the mounting. The rubber isolation mounts have a good shear rating, but work best in compression. I used four to hold the main blower panel and one to counter the torque caused by the top heavy assembly. They effectively eliminate the vibration and nothing is felt from the dining room above the shop.


    Blower_Motor
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr


    Here is the first string of 120mm ducting along the south wall. The first port on the left is for the Minimax SC2.


    Ducting-5
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr


    More of the ducting showing the ports for the sanders, drill press, and sliding compound miter saw. The Minimax SC2 is still in pieces, but I hope to have most of it assembled next weekend. Maybe.

    The extra hardware dangling from the blast gates are the 120mm to 100mm reducers and the compression clamps. The SC2 blade guard also has a dust port, and there is an 80mm blast gate and coupler for it in the upper left corner of the picture.


    Ducting-4
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr


    The last bit of ducting. These two drops are for the bandsaw and the jointer/planer.


    Ducting-3
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Nice looking installation! I really like your isolation solution.

    I've never seen that type of electrical channel you have around the room. Is that commonly used where you live? Seems like it would make changes a lot easier!

    Installing a good cyclone DC was one of the two best things I did when I built my shop. The other was heat and air!

    JKJ

  10. #25
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    Very neatly done.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Nice looking installation! I really like your isolation solution.

    I've never seen that type of electrical channel you have around the room. Is that commonly used where you live? Seems like it would make changes a lot easier!

    Installing a good cyclone DC was one of the two best things I did when I built my shop. The other was heat and air!

    JKJ
    The isolation is required. The walls and floors for my house were cast in place reinforced concrete, so direct vibration travels well through the structure. When I was using the hammer drill for the anchors, my wife could hear and feel the impacts no matter where she was in the house.

    The plastic channel is common for industrial settings and offices. Most of the construction here is masonry and it's easier to run the electrical and communications infrastructure in the channel than try to carve a path through brick or concrete.

    I think fresh air will be my next major project after the shop is set up. As a below-grade basement, the temperature stays a comfortable constant year round.

    Quote Originally Posted by andy bessette View Post
    Very neatly done.
    Thank you!

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Southwestern CT
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    If mounting high and expecting a number of gated drops on the run, try to mount the "Y"s so the drops comes off the side. That reduces the amount of dust that will drop into a closed drop. Typically it requires mounting the run some distance from the wall which may not be practical in your setup.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "the mechanic that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools.” Confucius

  13. #28
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    May 2017
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    Germany
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    Update for 2 October 2017.

    The dust collection system is nearly complete, with just a few bells and whistles to add. I still have to install the filter efficiency meter and pitot tube, the chip level detector, and the DC closet door vent. However, the system is fully operational and is much quieter than I thought it would be. I was going to line the DC closet interior surfaces with sound absorbing foam, but will hold off for now.

    Here is an image of the DC closet showing the newly installed filter box and filters. I'm using a pair of Wynn 35BA222NANO filters, each with an 18FP30 filter pan to make cleaning easier.


    DC_System-2
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr

    The filter box is made of 12mm plywood glued and nailed to a 44x44mm frame. The front face of the box is attached using screws so I can access the interior when needed. A dual 9mm neoprene gasket is between the box and the front face. I had to suspend the box from the ceiling using threaded rod so the side would be at the same height as the blower assembly output port.

    My air compressor will fit nicely under the filters, and the 3-phase receptacle is behind the filter on the right.

    Here is a closeup of the connection from the blower assembly to the filter box. I used a section of 180mm flexible duct that I formed into a rectangle slightly larger than the output port of the blower assembly. A simple wooden frame on each end of the flexible duct makes the connection secure and airtight.


    DC_System-3
    by Mike66GE, on Flickr
    Last edited by Mike Kreinhop; 10-02-2017 at 5:32 PM.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Tampa Bay, FL
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    Beautiful installation. I'm jealous. I'm never going to get mine to look that neat.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Lubbock Texas
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    931
    I installed 6" duct from all my equipment to my 2HP dust collector. I ran the duct along the wall on the floor. IT worked well and because the duct did not go all the way up to the ceiling and then back down to the equipment I had a shorter duct overall. I decided to move my dust collector to a separate building and this added about 20 feet of 6" metal duct. I saw no difference in the airflow when I made the change. So my conclusion/opinion is that if you run large enough duct (6") the length of duct does not make a whole lot of difference. If I were to make a new duct system in a new shop I would still run the duct along the wall on the floor again.
    No PHD, but I have a DD 214

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