Veritas combination plane.

[steven c newman]

On the #55...Cutter Box No. 1: The "Ogees" and other such cutters took advantage of the 55's movable skate.....these same cutters will NOT work on the #45 plane, nor any other plough planes . The left skate can be lowered to support the low side of the cutter, while the main stock stays put to support the high side of the cutter....The 55 also was able to tilt it's fences as needed. Yes it also had hollow and round cutters....with the special left skate to replace the sliding one...same set up as the #45...( and, good luck finding the #12 H&R....)

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys!

[Jim Koepke]

He's probably asking because the 45 had an optional set of H+R soles/blades. The Veritas is patterned on the 45, so it's reasonable to ask if they're doing the same or if it's compatible with the Stanley accessories.

For that matter the 55 came with H+R irons.

As to whether that would mean that it (or any other combo plane) can replace a set of H&Rs, I imagine that there are a wide range of opinions :-).

For the Stanley accessories such as the H&R soles to fit, the parallel rods would have to be set the same distance apart and be the same size as used on the Stanley #45. My recollection is only 4 sizes were made for the #45. The #55 comes with 4 sizes of H&R cutters with two more available in the special blade sets. Good luck finding them floating around. It would most likely be easier to purchase some extra blades and make your own.

Currently it is fairly easy to purchase H&R planes on the used market. Finding a matched set or even many of the odd sizes is a bit more of a challenge.

Nothing in the video led me to believe there will be Veritas H&R blades for the Large Plow Plane. Maybe if enough people request them they will be made, but that isn't something my money would be wagered upon.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

.. Note: MOST of the cutters on the 45 will have a slight curve to them, as designed. It was to help support the cutter, giving it a bit of spring-back.....without which they may chatter. So, new cutters being perfectly flat? First complaint will be about how they tend to chatter...

Hi Steven

My understanding is that the curved back is a design feature for tapered blades, and is intended to aid in locking the groove (that lies on the back of tapered plough blades) to the front of the skate. Clark and Williams describe it thus:

Fitting that taper for the full length of the bed of the skate with hand tools would represent great difficulty and the mated sections are necessary only near the back of the cutting edge. By curving the back of the blade to the necessary thick portion at the end of the blade, the plane maker reduced making these mating surfaces to an accomplishable and repeatable task.

The blades from the Veritas, Record and Stanley do not have this groove. Their thinner parallel blades are designed to be supported in a different manner to a woodie with a tapered blade.

I have not experienced any problems with chatter with any of the blades on the planes mentioned above. The blades of my Stanley #45 (and #46) are parallel. Perhaps yours are different?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Currently it is fairly easy to purchase H&R planes on the used market. Finding a matched set or even many of the odd sizes is a bit more of a challenge.

Jim Bode sells used sets periodically. If the set has a lot of collectible makers or is mostly matched, the price is a lot higher. He seems to get a fair number though of good user sets, and the prices can be surprisingly cheap.

[steven c newman]

All of my SW (1920s era) cutters are not tapered. They also have a slight curve to them, that flattens out as I tighten down the cutter holder. The curve presses the back of the cutter into the skate....almost like a chipbreaker was pressing the iron to the frog on a bench plane....

There isn't a groove in my cutters, maybe there was on the old, wood bodied ploughs, had to have something to keep things lined up in them. Their skate was ground to a knife edge, to fit the groove in the iron. The 45 needed no such groove. Maybe go back and take another look?

[Pete Taran]

I don't think Derek is always wrong, but he may be mistaken on this score. I looked at all the planes I have, a 46, 45 and 55. They do indeed all have curved blades, and they are all curved the same way. That is, when you place the blade on the skate, there is a hollow in the center of the back side of the blade. As Steve suggests, when the tapered bolt that holds the cutter is tightened, the blade is flattened to the skate and held under tension. Interestingly, I've always thought that the belly was a product of heat treating the blades and not due to a deliberate design feature. Further, I have an early japanned number 50, and as most know it's blade holding mechanism is not the same as the others, in that the entire blade is clamped from both sides and held tight by a wing nut and bolt. That blade is absolutely flat. Very curious and great catch Steve.

The photo is below. There is an early japanned style 46 blade on the bottom of both photos. The upper photo has an early floral plated 45 cutter on top, and on the bottom photo is a 1900 era 55 cutter on top. Cutters placed to double the curve for clarity. (look at the bevels).

blades.jpg

PS. I just watched the youtube video again, and it looks like the large plow has a pivoting lever cap sort of like the Stanley 78. As such, I'm not sure the curved blade matters, as it will be clamped near the edge where the cutting happens and at the top, making it pretty chatter free, just like the 78. An interesting observation on the older planes though, none the less.

[Pete Taran]

While I was digging in my various tool boxes for the blades I posted about above, I ran across a nosing attachment for the 45. It's funny, when you see a tool you bought long ago, the memories flood back to where you bought it and when. I picked this up in a decrepit antique shop in White Marsh, MD in the early 90s. Decent tools were scarce in those parts, but one Saturday I opened a drawer of a hutch and this was staring back at me. It was in a little wooden box, complete with thumb screws and blade. I asked the shop keeper what she wanted for it and she looked at me and said $2!

I post pictures of it as many may not know what we are talking about. Note the early patent date. I sharpened it up and it works great. The hollows and rounds as they were called allowed 45 users to get into planing some shapes which could only be done with the 55. I believe that the call for more and more of these types of bases resulting in the invention of the 55, a planing mill in a box!

nosing1.jpg

nosing2.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

Well, here are three of my #45 blades, all different sizes ...







and a #46 blade ...



These blades are all completely flat. I have a full set of #45 and #46 blades, and have also a full set of #043 blades. I have had a set of #044 blades (both the #043 and #044 are Records), as well as other #45 and #46 planes in the past. ALL have had flat blades.

Perhaps there is a variation in blades produced by Stanley. Based on my experience, however, there is enough consistency to suggest Stanley #45 blades are flat. Add to this the rationale for curved blades being a function of a the fit to a skate of a wooden plough.

Perhaps we should hear from others.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

All of my SW (1920s era) cutters are not tapered. They also have a slight curve to them, that flattens out as I tighten down the cutter holder. The curve presses the back of the cutter into the skate....almost like a chipbreaker was pressing the iron to the frog on a bench plane....

There isn't a groove in my cutters, maybe there was on the old, wood bodied ploughs, had to have something to keep things lined up in them. Their skate was ground to a knife edge, to fit the groove in the iron. The 45 needed no such groove. Maybe go back and take another look?

Steven, I suggest you re-read what I wrote. I stated that only wooden ploughs had tapered blades and that these were grooved at the rear. I also stated that the curve on these blades was to fit them to the knife edge of the skate. I am not sure where you inferred that I suggested that Stanley blades have a groove.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pete Taran]

Derek,

The answer is obvious. Stanley only sent the reject stuff to folks down under!

On a serious note, put the blades bevel to bevel like I did. Is there daylight in the middle? There isn't much spring, maybe .020". You might not see it comparing it with a ruler.

Pete

[Derek Cohen]

On a serious note, put the blades bevel to bevel like I did. Is there daylight in the middle? There isn't much spring, maybe .020". You might not see it comparing it with a ruler.

Pete, I've just done that. A couple of the blades DO show a hollow. Others do not. It is not consistent. Interestingly, the ones I used most (smaller ones) are flat, as is the largest. Some in the middle sizes have a fine hollow. This goes for both the #45 and #46. Interesting.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

There are a few sets of #45 blades in my shop. Some have a bit of a bow and some do not.

Most of my hollows & rounds were purchased for ~$10 apiece. None are from famous makers and only a few pairs are matched by maker. There are some planes throughout my accumulation made by the same maker(s).

Recently on ebay there have been large groups of planes for sale priced at ~$10 or less.

On a different tack, I have recently begun to read a post a few times while replying to help avoid misunderstanding. On a quick read of Derek's post one might not be clear on what is being said. Though if it is read carefully it is clear he isn't saying blades for the #45 have grooves or are tapered.

Hi Steven

My understanding is that the curved back is a design feature for tapered blades, and is intended to aid in locking the groove (that lies on the back of tapered plough blades) to the front of the skate. Clark and Williams describe it thus:

Fitting that taper for the full length of the bed of the skate with hand tools would represent great difficulty and the mated sections are necessary only near the back of the cutting edge. By curving the back of the blade to the necessary thick portion at the end of the blade, the plane maker reduced making these mating surfaces to an accomplishable and repeatable task.

The blades from the Veritas, Record and Stanley do not have this groove. Their thinner parallel blades are designed to be supported in a different manner to a woodie with a tapered blade.

I have not experienced any problems with chatter with any of the blades on the planes mentioned above. The blades of my Stanley #45 (and #46) are parallel. Perhaps yours are different?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Maybe if folks would read posts with a bit more care we would have more good natured results.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Thank you Jim

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

While you are all waiting around.....you COULD build a nice box to hold it in...
IMG_1127 (640x480).jpg
This one is for the Stanley #45, type 20 SW. It came with 24 cutters, set in holders on the end, and with space in the bottom for any extra items..
IMG_1124 (640x480).jpg
Long rods are in use, right now. extra spurs, and a smaller screwdriver to change them out with. There is an extra match cutter, that skinny/short cutter, and a few others. ( keep yer sticky paws off my cam rest!) Cutters...
IMG_1125 (640x480).jpg
You can put the fancy ones in the "front row" and the plainer ones in the back row..
IMG_1126 (640x480).jpg
Just be sure everything fit inside, when you close the lid...I would, but my plough plane is rather busy..
groovy.jpg
#12 cutter, micro-adjust fence used to center the groove...
end labels.jpg
And, don't forget the print out some sort of labels for the box.....