Veritas combination plane.

[Pete Taran]

This is not meant to be a review. I will do one at some stage, and compare the Veritas to the Stanley. What I meant to emphasise is that it is the same choice that one makes when purchasing a vintage 10" Disston dovetail saw on eBay and a new 10" IT dovetail saw from yourself (15 years ago). Why not just sharpen the Disston? Why purchase a new LN?

Derek

Greetings Derek. I'm not trying to throw LV under the bus, I'm just scratching my head publicly about their newest offering. Their past offerings have made sense to me. They have mainly introduced planes that are unique or are very expensive on the old tools market. Their bevel up plane is a very good example. I can see why they would create some planes that are bevel up and market them as the originals are often broken or very expensive.

But, by your own admission, the 45 works just as good as the large plow plane and has more features and more blades. That value proposition to me doesn't make sense.

To your point about the IT dovetail saw. The reality was that the 10" Disston Dovetail saw had a much thicker blade and was not really made for dovetailing as it was just a small back saw with crosscut teeth. The reason Patrick and I started to make it was because there were no modern or even vintage equivalents that were designed to dovetail that were affordable or available. We produced a tool that everyone wanted but could not find. So it fits very well into the LV model of the bevel up planes.

I do appreciate your perspective.

Regards,

Pete

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Pete,

Your question is a good one for anyone contemplating the purchase of any high end tool. In my experience, one element of value depends on geography. I used to live on the east coast where vintage tools were common, could be handled and shopped easily and I could know exactly what I was buying. And there were lots of good deals to be had. I now live in a region with few antique tools, so the 'service' component of simply getting a tool is important, knowing exactly what the item is, not paying shipping, etc. I also don't have as much time as I used to, so the service of getting a tool that I know is going to work adds to that value.

Best,
Chris

[Derek Cohen]

But, by your own admission, the 45 works just as good as the large plow plane and has more features and more blades. That value proposition to me doesn't make sense.

Pete, what I said before was that there was no reason why the #45 should not work as well as the Veritas. However, I also said that the Veritas was better finished and easier to set up. Cost aside, that carries weight for some.

I don't see LV having a model of producing unique planes, per se. I think that they are producing quality planes with a modern flair. For example, there are many block planes available. A vintage Stanley #60 1/2 is a good block plane, and there are many available on eBay at a reasonable price. Still, LV have produced several block planes, and notably the DX60. At the end of the day, the #60 1/2 and the DX60 will both plane wood, but I would rather use the LV block plane because it feels better in the hand, sets up more easily, and has better steel. The cost does not matter to me. This not to say that it does not matter for someone else. Others may decide differently on that basis.

I do not see this as any different with the plough planes. There is a market for everyone. This is the reason early on I mentioned the options available. I was not trying to sell readers on the LV, but rather pointing out where it stands among the choices.

The example of the Disston vs the IT is not so far fetched. Refile the Disston to rip and it is essentially a dovetail saw. Not nearly as nice to use as the IT, but the Disstons were available on eBay for a lot less than a new IT. Back when you began making the IT, there must have been dovetail saws available? Yes? And some would have gone for a cheaper saw, even though it had a chunky blade and did not feel as nice in the hand. It could still do the job? Me? I'd have gone for the IT everyday of the week. In fact, I did

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Pete,

You make a very good point on the price. It seems to come down to many people buying a pig in a 'poke' compared to making a purchase from a known entity at a known level of quality.

Many of my purchases of old tools have been "pigs in a 'poke'." Many turned out well and some not so well.

It seems the price of purchasing a Stanley #45 has dropped a bit over the years.

One needs to recall the "floral motif" was gone from the #45 by the time the adjustable fence was part of the plane.

The cost of modern manufacturing will always be higher than the cost of finding something made ~a century ago. One thing to remember is it was almost a day of celebration when one of my Stanley #45 purchases arrived with any blade sharp enough to go to work. This hasn't bothered me. One of my favorite pastimes is fettling old tools.

For some the frustrations that come with getting an old plow plane to work well isn't worth the savings in dollars. To others like myself, it isn't an experience of frustrations, it is an experience of learning.

Of course the wood doesn't know the difference. My bet though is someone who has never used a plow plane could produce good work from the Veritas Large Plow Plane just as quick and possibly faster than me with one of the #45s you mentioned above. This would be especially true if the blades from the #45 needed any sharpening work.

The Veritas Large Plow Plane has many improvements over the older plow planes. Many users like us will be perfectly satisfied with our older versions just as newer users will be very happy to have a modern creation in their tool cabinet.

jtk

[Pete Taran]

Jim and Derek,

All good points. One of the things that is always in the back of my mind is how many guys dream about using an adjustable plow plane, and put it in the "someday" category because of the price? That day never comes and they miss out on that opportunity when they could buy a $200 plane that does the same task that they can afford today. I guess we will see when the LV plow starts to ship.

[Patrick Chase]

You make a very good point on the price. It seems to come down to many people buying a pig in a 'poke' compared to making a purchase from a known entity at a known level of quality.

Buying a classic tool doesn't automatically imply buying a pig in a poke. If you're willing to forego bargain-hunting and pay full market price, then you can get planes of known and accurately described quality from people like Pete's former business partner Patrick Leach. Ditto for saws from Pete.

[steven c newman]

While you all are waiting around on this new wonder plane....been using mine for quite a while, now. Getting ready to use it again, too. Note: MOST of the cutters on the 45 will have a slight curve to them, as designed. It was to help support the cutter, giving it a bit of spring-back.....without which they may chatter. So, new cutters being perfectly flat? First complaint will be about how they tend to chatter...

[Derek Cohen]

Jim and Derek,

All good points. One of the things that is always in the back of my mind is how many guys dream about using an adjustable plow plane, and put it in the "someday" category because of the price? That day never comes and they miss out on that opportunity when they could buy a $200 plane that does the same task that they can afford today. I guess we will see when the LV plow starts to ship.

Pete, did you see the bridle plough planes for sale by Barrett & son ... a few years ago now ... for a mere $2500. Everybodies dream - definitely mine. Clearly there were some who could afford these planes. I certainly could not justify the cost ... so I built my own ... it has 8 blades ...







Every now-and-then I give the bridle plough a run. Most of the time I use the Veritas Small Plow, because it is easier to set up and use.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Simon MacGowen]

While you all are waiting around on this new wonder plane...

Even more waiting...for someone who is setting their eyes on a LN version (which likely is going to cost even more).

But for those who prefer new to old, I am sure the wait (for the Veritas or LN) will be worth it.

Simon

[J. Greg Jones]

Fine Woodworking has published an early look at the Veritas Combination Plane on their YouTube feed channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UtbZn3gE44

[Simon MacGowen]

Fine Woodworking has published an early look at the Veritas Combination Plane on their YouTube feed channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UtbZn3gE44

Doesnt look good...not the plane, I am talking about my wallet!

Simon

[steven c newman]

Don't worry...still have a few months to save up for it....maybe skip a car payment....

[Simon MacGowen]

Don't worry...still have a few months to save up for it....maybe skip a car payment....

haha! Or sell some blood.

According to the video, the plane is due out in a week or so (August).

Simon

[Frederick Skelly]

Was there mention of the hollow, round, and stair nosing attachments and blades?

Whoa. Wait a minute - could this thing replace a set of H&Rs? That would be an important feature for me and would mitigate the cost even with $20 a piece blades.

What do you guys know?
Fred

[Patrick Chase]

Whoa. Wait a minute - could this thing replace a set of H&Rs? That would be an important feature for me and would mitigate the cost even with $20 a piece blades.

What do you guys know?
Fred

He's probably asking because the 45 had an optional set of H+R soles/blades. The Veritas is patterned on the 45, so it's reasonable to ask if they're doing the same or if it's compatible with the Stanley accessories.

For that matter the 55 came with H+R irons.

As to whether that would mean that it (or any other combo plane) can replace a set of H&Rs, I imagine that there are a wide range of opinions :-).