I may be way off, but if you're using the green compound or some equivalent on a strop, isn't that essentially something close to 15,000 grit or so?
Is it necessary to have an intermediate stone between 3,000 and the strop?
Member
I may be way off, but if you're using the green compound or some equivalent on a strop, isn't that essentially something close to 15,000 grit or so?
Is it necessary to have an intermediate stone between 3,000 and the strop?
Contributor
Did you see this Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 in the classifieds section of this forum for $280 with a 50 degree frog? That's a perfect smoother right there, especially for the African Mahogany you mentioned. The 50 degree frog will have less tear-out than the standard 45 degree.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...50-Degree-Frog
Member
How many people actually use the cap iron here, apart from Warren,George,Kees and Derek ?
I can't see why some non believers wouldn't try it out at least.
I suggest to you Jared, that you get another plane that you will have other specific uses for if you really want one....why not.
as you probably will just end up using your 5 1/2 when you get the cap iron set right.
Id be shopping for stones though if I had a Bailey style 51/2 and a 6
Tom
Last edited by Tom Trees; 07-26-2017 at 11:56 AM.
Contributor
The person who made that comment knows what he is talking about. That said, you should do what you want. It is your money.Originally Posted by Jared Hendrix
The only real difference between a 4 and a 5 or a 6 is the dimensions. They all work the same way. You can set a No. 7 up to take see through shavings and leave a perfect surface. In fact that is how mine was set up until I realized how far astray I had been led by all the videos of perfect see through shavings. Planes can do that, but if you want to get a piece of rough lumber in order without spending a whole weekend on it, see through shavings are not where you want to be.
The difference in a smoothing plane is how you set it up. That is the point Warren is making. Having a plane that is a couple of inches shorter and a fraction of an inch wider or narrower is not going to make a difference, and it sounds to some of us like you think it somehow will. Pete is correct that a 3, a 4, or a 4 1/2 will all make a great smoother, properly set up and handled.
And I agree that if I were you I would be looking at a better way to sharpen. I have a 1000/8000 Norton waterstone, which you can get for well under $100. If you did that instead of the Woodriver plane, I think you would still have enough left over to buy a good Stanley smoother from a reputable dealer.
[OP]
Member
I agree completely. I have come to the same conclusion as you though in regards to the no 7. It can be set up to take super thin shavings, but as soon as i want to do some heavier stock removal I have to change the way i set it up.
Yes, the 5-1/2 can be set up to be a smoothing plane, and can likely be done so that no tear-out results, but i want to use my 5-1/2 to dimension my boards as well. I want to be able to take a thicker shaving with it. to set it up for that purpose, and then to change it to take a smoothing plane type shaving wastes too much time.
I didn't mean for it sound like i think this plane i buy will solve all my issues. It's likely that it wont. I should've just saved the tear-out part of the question for another day.
Contributor
I am probably mistaken, but as I recall, the 'smoothing' planes are all quite a bit smaller than the jack planes and jointers and try planes and that's for a reason. Not to say you can't use a jointer for smoothing, but its not the right tool for that job.
Member
I had one of the first 4's from Tom, as well as first batch of A-2, first batch of improved chipbreakers, and first run of 50 deg frogs. I did a fair amount of A-B on the highly figured stuff common to modern luthiery, going back thru the options each time Tom tweaked the plane. The A-2 and 50 deg frog made a difference on abrasive, highly figured stuff, but made little difference on less challenging stuff, so - other than really fun stuff at .070" thickness - , I would tend to agree that the high angle frogs are not really needed by 99% of workers.
On the CB, it took about two minutes with a file and some fine papers to match the legacy CB geometry on the leading edge of the improved shipbreaker...done and no difference in performance...for those complaining about the ICB, it's an easy fix..
[OP]
Member
Let's stick a fork in it and call this one done.
I bought a #4 WoodRiver plane on ebay for $60.... now to decide what to spend my extra $140 on... another chisel, new table saw blade, and a crosscut saw.. maybe a sharpening stone as well, or wagon vise parts.. so many choices..
Member
I do. As Warren has pointed out it takes some practice and dedication. Probably less total effort (and certainly less money) than thrashing your way through all of the alternatives though. Been there, done that.
Contributor
How close do you set your chipbreaker? Mils is OK, no need for microns.
Member
Is it really difficult to use a chip breaker? I never found it so - I only started woodworking 2 years ago (I'm talking started from scratch, where I grew up we didn't have any shop classes), and the way I learnt it, mostly from the internet and Paul Sellers was to use a chip breaker. As I progressed (within a couple months) I realised intuitively that a very close set chip breaker is better for smoothing/finishing planes where tearout is undesirable.
I don't understand why it seems to be taken as a difficult thing - set your chip breaker as close to the edge of the blade as possible, hold it in place, and tighten - if it tends to shift forward, move the chip breaker back a bit before tightening to account for that forward movement. Am I missing some finer points of using the chip breaker? Easily 99% of the stock I've planed this way is tearout free, and some of it was very figured, reversing grain etc.
Contributor
Set this one at 1mm between the CB and the edge..
stanley no. 4c.jpg
Stanley No.4c, made in England...
no tear-out.jpg
Look Ma, no tear out. Board is just some Curly Maple...with a big knot.
Member
The tightest that I've both used successfully and measured was ~5 mils, but I would only go that low for a problematic workpiece. It's possible I've gone lower than that by now, but I haven't measured in a while as doing so is somewhat involved (I used a reflective/metallurgical microscope) and fairly pointless once you have the hang of things.
Steve Elliott has some 'scope shots on his page showing a 4-mil setback.
Like most people, when I need a close-set cap-iron I adjust it with a bright light reflecting from the iron, and advance the cap iron until a uniform (or symmetric if the blade is rounded) sliver shows all the way across. I used to do it under a 4X magnifier with bright lightning, but realized that that was unneccessarily time-consuming. You can judge it well enough with the naked eye if you get a good specular reflection from the blade back.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 07-26-2017 at 8:16 PM.
Member
You are on a perilous slope.
Contributor
And, downright slippery, too...
Tools.jpg
You have been warned....
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