The skinny on vanity hvlp finishing...

[Jeremy Patrick]

I know, I know, pointers on finishing with an hvlp system have been covered in many different ways on many different posts.
But... I tried to read too many of them and have myself all twisted up on what is the most direct route to go.
On top of it, I stopped by the local SW store to ask about what product options they have available. That didn't help as the person I talked to didn't really side with any of the comments I've read so far.

If I may ask for a bit of a pathway to go on for the following project:

Putting together a custom vanity for our downstairs bathroom. Have a local mill shop that offers decent prices for ready to go soft maple in various sizes and lengths. They don't have a maple plywood panel, but they do have 3/4" birch plywood. All items are already sanded down including edges. Obviously a bit of work is still needed after everything is cut down to size, but for the most part it's 90% ready to work with.

So that is the wood options that I have to work with.
My wife is wanting a gray tint to the base, matching with a white slab on top. The exact tint of gray is still being narrowed down.

I currently have an Earlex 5500 unit I picked up from woodcraft last fall. Eager to make this thing pay itself off, but with few options for a heated environment for winter it hasn't seen much use.

So far, I've seen people give a rundown of sealing the whole setup with dewaxed shellac, or going with a lacquer undercoating as the primer. Then move to a pre-cat lacquer, or a conversion varnish. I understand the aspects of what needs to be done in order, but which route combo would be the most ideal for what I'm working with?

Like I mentioned initially, I run myself silly trying to define a clear path I should try. If anyone can spare a minute to set me on the right path.

thank you

[Andy Giddings]

Just finished a vanity myself and I used Baltic Birch throughout (Euro frameless cabinets, slab doors) which gives the modern look we wanted. Finish regime was two coats of Bin primer (Shellac based) sanding/filling blemishes after each coat, two coats of General Finishes Snow White Milk Paint and three coats of General Finishes Enduro Clear Poly in Semi-Gloss. Very light sanding between each top coat to knock down any nibs.

Everything was applied using HVLP. Looks great and the Enduro Poly is a tough top coat that has excellent resistance to chemicals, abrasion and knocks. Not cheap or quick but I wanted to do it once and have it last. The Earlex unit will spray any of these materials as long as you have the right needle size for the Milk Paint which is quite thick. All of these materials (apart from the Bin) are water based.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Thanks for the reply!

Question though for your GF paint. What would you advise if the color would be tinted to grey instead of a base white? What would the selection be in that case?

[Jeremy Patrick]

another question. I was looking on the GF site and they mention the milk paint as needing a 2.0mm for the spray gun. What size were you using?

[Andy Giddings]

Jeremy, the GF Milk Paint comes in a range of colors (Gray is definitely an option) and custom colors are possible as well. The color chart is on their site. For spraying, I typically use a 1.8 needle on a Fuji Mini-Mite 3 which I think has slightly more pressure than the Earlex, so a 2 would make sense. Really you could use any of the regular WB acrylic paints recommended in this forum - the top coat is going to be the one that is important for wear and resistance

[Jeremy Patrick]

Thanks Andy.

At this point I just need to stick with a progression of steps and since you outlined what worked well for you, I'll try and do the same. Once I get my feet wet enough then I can start branching out.

I saw a decent deal for a 2.0 mm tip for the earlex, but wanted to make sure.
I read a bit further and saw the GF sites lists the milk paint as needing a .043-.051 which according to the chart is between a 1.0 and a 1.5. Not that I would try and knock what they are listing, but there also seems to be the real life version of things that others such as yourself have figured out. Maybe the hvlp chart they reference is for a machine like yours that puts out a bit more that an earlex.
1.1 MM = 0.043
1.3 MM = 0.051 GF Whites, Clears
1.5 MM = 0.061

I bought the unit from a local woodcraft store and it includes the 2.0 and 1.5 tips.
Aside from spraying the milk paint, what tips did you see as adequate for the 1st and 3rd applications?

[Andy Giddings]

Jeremy. you can try the smaller 1.5 needle on the Milk Paint and if it doesn't atomize properly just go up to the 2. I generally thin the Milk Paint with 10-15% water as it's normally hot in TX and it helps ensure the paint flows after spraying. I believe the GF video is using an Earlex with a 2.0 needle

For the other finishes listed, 1.5 is ok as they are thinner - might be a bit on the large side (my go to needle on the Fuji is 1.3). If you get too thick a coating just close down the valve controlling material flow. They should not need any thinning.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Excellent, thanks again.
Im up in mid Wisconsin, and our weather has been so wacky it seems the only way I can plan for test spraying is to check the temp meter after work each day. No forecast has been accurate enough this summer to really count on it.

[Prashun Patel]

Hoang Nguyen had great success with Sherwin Williams tinted Kem Aqua Plus.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ored-Waterbase

[Rob Young]

Jeremy, the GF Milk Paint comes in a range of colors (Gray is definitely an option) and custom colors are possible as well. The color chart is on their site. For spraying, I typically use a 1.8 needle on a Fuji Mini-Mite 3 which I think has slightly more pressure than the Earlex, so a 2 would make sense. Really you could use any of the regular WB acrylic paints recommended in this forum - the top coat is going to be the one that is important for wear and resistance

The above!

And the recommendation of Zinser BIN primer (shellac based) is also spot on. Of the painted items I've done (re-done), the ones where I started with Zinser as my primer went through the process so much more easily. The primer can be tinted.

Sand to 120 or 150 (depends on wood, but 150 is a good all-rounder for painting).

Spray two coats Zinser. When dry, inspect, putty/patch, sand back and if necessary shoot one more coat.

GF "Milk" paint is pretty much just an acrylic. Good by itself but does like a topcoat for the usual reasons of durability & sheen.

I've had my 4-stage turbine HVLP (Sprayfine from Turbine Products)for about a year now and I can spray the Zinser unmodified with a 1.3mm N/N set. I can spray the GF milkpaint unmodified with a 1.8mm N/N set. Clear coats are the same, 1.3mm or 1.5mm as needed (shellac with 1.0).

I have tried a splash (maybe 5% by volume) of Floetrol in the GF Milk paint as an extender without issue. But honestly, it is a single data point and I probably could have just sprayed a little heavier (closer/slower) and gotten the same benefit.

Prior to getting the 4-stage, I played about with the el-cheapo single stage unit sold by Rockler/HarborFreight/others for several months. It too could spray Zinser just fine but with its larger N/N set. And milk paint needed at least 15%, maybe as high as 20% water addition. At those ratios I believe the color and definitely the coverage is affected. So your Earlex 5500 should be just fine if you get both the 1.5mm and 2.0mm N/N sets.

(And as a plug for the Sprayfine, the N/N + air cap sets are $35 each instead of the >$70 for most other guns.)

[Jeremy Patrick]

You folks are awesome, can't thank enough for the pointers. Interestingly enough on the N/N, even though the earlex came with the 1.5 and 2.0, the price of those and even the 1.0 are also around the $35 you mentioned.

Clarification though, you mentioned the primer can be tinted, what exactly does that aid with in the overal aim of having a piece turn out X colour? Unless the second stage is a light colour, it would completely obscure the primer colour right?

Second, when looking at the GF milk paint options, I do see custom colours can be done, but is that something that has to be ordered specifically per a colour patch/code? Or can this type of paint be mixed a little, say a darker gray plus a standard white to give just a bit lighter gray, but inbetween the two gray patches listed on their pallette?

This bathroom project seems to be one of those linear decision making setups where we need to have the tile down to actually see what the exact color variation is vs the sample. Then we may adjust the wall paint colour and that would probably then influence what shade of gray this vanity ends up being. Doing something on the fly would be far easier unless that isn't an option with this type of paint.

Although I had high hopes for what the SW store might offer, the person I talked with earlier seemed to have their own agenda on what they wanted to push me towards. (no offense to your reference Preshun, maybe it was just this store's crew)
So with many previous posts, and Andy going with GF products, I'm going to swing by the woodcraft store in town and see what kind of selection they have.

[Andy Giddings]

Jeremy, tinting a white primer is beneficial if your topcoat is dark. I believe BIN only comes in white so if you were painting something dark gray or black, tinting the primer would help.


You can mix different colors of Milk Paint to achieve custom colors (see here http://designs.generalfinishes.com/c...lor-mixing-lab) - you can also use tinting kits that are compatible with acrylic paints. GF has a Facebook and Houzz web page with lots of photos of finished furniture if you're trying to decide on colors. Also, asking a question on their Facebook page will result in them answering generally in the same day.

SW has good products - I used their paint exclusively for the walls and trim in the bathroom remodel I just finished (same room as the vanity) - I've just never used them on the cabinets I've built. Always used GF for my WB finishes. They aren't the cheapest but I've never had a failure.

[Rob Young]

re:tinting -- I've only done this when changing the color of something. Starting from raw wood, the white color is probably fine.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Ah, I see where you are going now. How easy is it to get the items needed to tint the primer?

[Rob Young]

Ah, I see where you are going now. How easy is it to get the items needed to tint the primer?

Had it done at SW store (bought gallon there). If not tinting, buy at Home Depot/Lowes/Menards as it will likely be cheaper.

Side note, I've done the tinted primer thing with wall paint too (roller applied). Worked great to change a dark brown (why previous homeowner, why?) to something much lighter. Only needed one color coat. Used KILZ interior wall primer tinted medium gray on the advise of a friend who has several rental houses in a college town. He regularly has to repaint walls after they get some seriously weird and questionable color makeovers.