Craftsman front door build

[jack forsberg]

Thanks Joe. I really like the idea of the hidden bottom seal flaring out to seal against the frame legs as it drops; I'll have to look into that Swiss company. That's the one place the Pemco hidden bottom seal doesn't seal, at the frame. You have the side seal but there is still a little pathway for air to leak past, which Jack may have solved with his approach although that's not very attractive when the door is open. Sometime when you have a chance I'd really like to see in detail how you deal with water getting between the panel and sticking. You can send me a PM if you'd like, or to jteneyck54@live.com, or continue to post here, as you choose. Many thanks for your being willing to help educate me and others.

And you are right, those are massive doors.

Oh, one more comment. I was out yesterday to look at some potential work for some very well healed clients. There was a beautiful mahogany front door with a big leaded glass panel, flanked by two side lights. When I went to close the door it clanked and then reluctantly shut. Of course that got my attention, so I looked more closely and saw the reveal was much tighter at the top on the lock side than on the hinge side, and the opposite at the bottom. I opened the door and pushed a little on the edge of the door, and could easily see the hinges were sloppy. They were 4" ball bearing hinges but the pins didn't fit tightly into the leaves. I couldn't tell who the manufacturer of the hinges was but I sure wouldn't have used them. The mullion the hinges were anchored to were only an inch thick, too, which looked pretty light to me although I didn't see any flex in them. I asked the GC about the door and he said the whole unit was going back. Seems someone didn't know left handed from right handed. He said he was going to ask for better quality hinges, too. It was a $5000 door. Not outrageous, though it was unfinished, but still, I would have expected better.

John

Always a bit skeptical about the gizmos not being supported longer than my work . Although I'd be dead so why do I care

[Mel Fulks]

Warren,I actually looked for a way to show those those old grammar school marks that can tell you whether it's "bow" as in bent stile or "bow" like magicians do when do when they find the beautiful woman in the other trunk!
Door thickness,around here most of the shop made interior doors are 1 and 3/8 inches,but I've seen 19th century ones that were only 1 and 1/4. Have seen 1 and 3/4 used for interior,but it's pretty rare. Exterior doors are almost all 1 and 3/4 or 2 and 1/4.

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks Joe. I've been married to a German for over 35 years; after being there on vacation and for business probably at least 50 times I'm very familiar with Euro style doors and windows. Far superior to ours in both function and weather tightness. Not as attractive to my eye as our more simple designs, but no leakage is beautiful, too.

John

John,
Agree about the German style, it's their thing and it works fine in Germany. They don't like to use panel doors outside and have all kind of regulations about what is permitted in various climates and roof overhangs. I like the door designs up in the high alps. Those fit well in my area. We can do pretty much any design. Cost, lever handles and the overlay door lip are the things you must overcome to market these in the US. There is hardware available now to do flush to the jamb face. I prefer these for large heavy doors as the hinges are adjustable and strong. They have some very high tech hinges now but I like the simplicity of the old style Anuba hinge.

We have the doors and windows in our home and really enjoy the function and quality.
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[Joe Calhoon]

thanks Mel,

geez one word has two different meanings no wonder I get confused at times And why is there a b in climb? ive yet to try a core thing and want to. Would be neat to see how the material reacts to jointing and planing compared to solid. You know I admire your command of solid material. Thinking about my mothers 50 year old pine windows, fall storm window goes on and that three holes and flap arm to close them off. that was some high tech stuff.




this is vague I know but what do we think of door thicknesses?



cabinets like Kitchen door stuff I use 7/8" min as it works to my face frame on inset with bead, we were taught to use 3/4 and most kitchen door makers are 13/16, of course 4/4 is a shadow of what it was making 7/8 more of a bother
I dont like 3/4 doors ive opened kitchens with a magnetic latch at one end and on a long door felt it bend as I was pulling free of the magnet, I know there are some kitchen builders that do 1" thick doors. 7/8 can be a pain with european hinges but found a few that worked,



Armoire bookcase type doors epending on inset or have odd time partial overlay 1 1/4 - 1 3/8 more likely



Interior home door which I havent done you are 1 3/8 - 1 1/2? I should have checked this home I was in guy did a very expensive home and was mounting doors he had made poplar stained like Walnut colour, very nicely made and he used good hinges and ball catches top and bottom, doors closed with a quiet authority and no rattle and where two met they were bang on accurate held in place top and bottom.



entrance doors, 1 3/4 - 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 for some depending on cores etc


Garage doors, Joe you have made those I think



Realize all this is style length dependant, are some people doing stave stuff on interiors or only on the thicker doors?

Warren,
For us thickness is 1 3/8 for most historic interior doors in this area. We used to build a lot of 1 3/8 solid stile red oak interiors back in the 80s. Tough to get that thickness out of 6/4 and ended up ordering 7/4 for that. We do a lot of 1 3/4" interior doors now. 1 3/4" for small cottage style exterior doors but mostly 2 1/4" for square edge exterior doors and 68 or 78mm for the rebated Euro doors.
We used to do 1" thick cabinet doors. Blum has a hinge that works.

One more negative for doing stave core in smaller shops is the cost. It is labor intensive without industrial machines and low cost labor. Another reason I use solid whenever I can. We tried outsourcing these at times but never happy with the quality. There are some east coast producers that are good. The finger joint core is a good thing. It is just not practical for a small shop to do that making their own cores. It is also possible to buy finger jointed Eastern pine core material. I have not tried that.

[Mel Fulks]

Bought one order of the finger jointed wide core material made of NE pine. They were plenty thick and worked well. Also ordered some stiles once from the same company, they were not so straight. We made them work by carefully making sure the worst ones got the hinges. Would never order any finished stiles again.

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks Joe. Sometime when you have a chance I'd really like to see in detail how you deal with water getting between the panel and sticking.

John

Hi John,
See attached rough drawing and picture. The rustic Arts and Crafts style door is square sticking and close to my drawing on the right. In the picture you notice a shadow line at the bottom rail. It is possible to set the panel on the bottom rail but I always worry about water wicking up into the end grain. The drawing is a section through the bottom rail. Ends are coped or tenoned as normal and stiles are run as normal. Square sticking is popular here but the horizontal rails are tough on finish so we always try to put a 7 or 5 degree bevel on these.

The profiled rail is a little more difficult to make. Our profiled cutters are separate cutters with adjustable groovers for the groove so just a matter of a few cuts. This also works with foam insulated panels. The barn wood rail has more laminations than I prefer for exterior but the only way to do this and keep a flat door.

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[Mel Fulks]

Good stuff, Joe. We have have had even more pieces in the stiles at times ,when we had only 4/4 flat sawn material we would rip it into strips and glue that.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks very much for the follow ups, Joe. Much appreciated. I really like the engineering behind the German doors and adjustability of the hinges they use. I might do something like that with a front door for my own house just to work out the details and gain some experience.

John