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Thread: Lines of dominoes: Cross-stop or scribe-and-align-with-cursor?

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    Lines of dominoes: Cross-stop or scribe-and-align-with-cursor?

    I am new to the world of Festool Dominoes. I had my eye out for one on CL for a while and finally got a Fat Man at a decent price (never did see any Little Boys come up). With a Seneca adapter and a set of smaller bits, I am good for any size of domino.

    My current project is a(nother) platform bed, and there are several places where I am using lines of dominoes, for example joining side- and end-rails to the plywood that the mattress will rest upon. I did some test pieces using the cross-stop and cutting lines of narrow mortises, but never could get them to align. I know there is a way to calibrate the cross-slides, but after about five attempts (cut several mortises, adjust, cut several mortises, adjust, try to get them to line up), I gave up. Perhaps someone has a better way to calibrate the two cross-stops to each other. Of course, I could follow the Festool suggestion to just cut narrow mortises at one end for alignment and then cut the remainder of the mortises at the wider setting. That works, but it offends my sensibilities: I moved up from a biscuit joiner to the Domino for greater precision, and those wide mortises are pretty sloppy.

    Instead, I have been scribing domino locations on pieces to be joined and aligning the cursor with the scribe lines to cut narrow mortises. This is slower and more painstaking than using the cross-stop, but it works! As a hobbyist, I am not as concerned with efficiency as others might be, but I was wondering what other folks out there do.
    -- Jim

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  2. #2
    offends your sensibilities? :-) thanks for the giggle. I would suggest to you that severely tight mortises in this situation are not really needed. Festool's way of doing it is surely strong and will do the job. It's not as tho the mortises are sloppy, their way. Just not having to force them in. and remember glue today is stronger than wood. Those joints will hold up. I have used the cross stop method for years and years, and have never had a customer call me because they failed. Nor have any of my personal pieces failed. Hope this is reassuring.
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    Thanks, Michelle. That should have been "my delicate sensibilities" So no evidence that 'loose' mortises compromise joint strength?
    -- Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Morgan View Post
    So no evidence that 'loose' mortises compromise joint strength?
    I will go on record and say it does compromise joint strength. I just bought a used Domino and used it to put together a couple of sofa tables. I couldn't get the cursor aligned to my liking so I used the larger setting. I was not happy with the strength and ended up securing almost all of the joints with a pocket hole screws. My JessEm doweling jig would have made a stronger and more accurate jig. I wish the Domino had a setting for a setting for a hair wider and not ginormas and mack truck. I will continue to work with the Domino but I do not like the larger setting unless you are using it for alignment. Your joints may not matter depending on where the stress is . Most of my joints were similar to a table leg to apron type of joint.

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    The plywood is not normally joined in, typically the frame is substantial to handle not only the weight but the occasional racking forces applied and the plywood either set in and screwed down or just set in.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 08-19-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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    Cary, I lucked out in having a cursor that seems to be perfectly aligned - the rows of dominoes that I have been doing by scribe-and-align/narrow mortise go together without forcing. Half Inch Shy had a YouTube video on aligning the cursor that you might find useful.

    Even with the strength of modern wood glues, it seems to me the narrow mortises result in a mechanically superior joint.
    -- Jim

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    Brian, in this case, there really isn't a frame, just a lip around the plywood platform. I used 80 mm Dominos on 6-inch centers out of concern with weight and racking of the lip - we'll see how that holds up.
    -- Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Morgan View Post
    Brian, in this case, there really isn't a frame, just a lip around the plywood platform. I used 80 mm Dominos on 6-inch centers out of concern with weight and racking of the lip - we'll see how that holds up.
    The best and most interesting advice I've received, WRT furniture making was; 'Beds fail at the most inopportune times, so make it strong'. I'll offer you the same advice, because in all frankness this sounds like not anywhere near enough structure.

    Two adults is anywhere from 250-500+ lbs depending on some variables, that is static weight.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 08-19-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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    I thought butterfly's and domino's were for alignment with the strength of the joint being derived from glue.
    What am I missing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    The best and most interesting advice I've received, WRT furniture making was; 'Beds fail at the most inopportune times, so make it strong'. I'll offer you the same advice, because in all frankness this sounds like not anywhere near enough structure.

    Two adults is anywhere from 250-500+ lbs depending on some variables, that is static weight.
    Brian, maybe you are thinking of a traditional headboard-footboard-side rail design, in which case, you would be 100% correct. Here, however, there is a sturdily constructed storage structure underneath the plywood platform, so I am not worried about supporting the weight of the bed + occupants, even under conditions of vigorous activity.

    The edge of the platform is flush with the storage structure, but the lips on the sides and foot - about 3" wide - are cantilevered. Imagine 250 pounds perching on the edge of this I would not trust an unreinforced joint to hold up here.
    -- Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowell holmes View Post
    I thought butterfly's and domino's were for alignment with the strength of the joint being derived from glue.
    What am I missing?
    Lowell, biscuits provide (some) alignment while adding little or no strength to joints. The domino joint is a different story - it is really two complementary mortises joined with a slip tenon. In a traditional M&T joint, the tenon does more that just align the joint for glue-up. Good M&T joints fit snugly, both along the cheeks that provide the gluing surface and along the edges, to combat racking. In it's narrow setting, the Domino cuts mortises that fit snugly all the way around. In the wider settings, the mortise is snug along the faces, but loose along the edges, so the mechanical resistance to racking is lost.
    -- Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Mac View Post
    Jacob, thanks, that's the vid on cursor alignment I was thinking of. I haven't been able to find anything comparable on calibrating the cross-stops.
    -- Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by James Morgan View Post
    Brian, maybe you are thinking of a traditional headboard-footboard-side rail design, in which case, you would be 100% correct. Here, however, there is a sturdily constructed storage structure underneath the plywood platform, so I am not worried about supporting the weight of the bed + occupants, even under conditions of vigorous activity.

    The edge of the platform is flush with the storage structure, but the lips on the sides and foot - about 3" wide - are cantilevered. Imagine 250 pounds perching on the edge of this I would not trust an unreinforced joint to hold up here.
    Ah, that makes sense then. It still strikes me as being odd to perminantly mount the plywood. Normally it is viewed as replaceable not integral. In a platform bed all the same. One would typically wrap a support around the interior of the frame and the plywood sits inside if it.

    I build work that is typically generalized as either contemporary European or Japanese, never really American traditional.

    I made this recently to hold a washer and dryer, similar to a platform bed in design. The center has a leg to support, the interior a heavy ledge for the plywood and the plywood just sitting in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Ah, that makes sense then. It still strikes me as being odd to perminantly mount the plywood. Normally it is viewed as replaceable not integral. In a platform bed all the same. One would typically wrap a support around the interior of the frame and the plywood sits inside if it.

    I build work that is typically generalized as either contemporary European or Japanese, never really American traditional.

    I made this recently to hold a washer and dryer, similar to a platform bed in design. The center has a leg to support, the interior a heavy ledge for the plywood and the plywood just sitting in place.


    Very cool, Brian.

    The plywood is just screwed to the support structure, so that can be removed. I've been thinking of using pocket screws (from the bottom) to draw the lip tight to the edge of the plywood. If this weren't glued, the lip could be removable as well. But would dominoes and pocket screws, sans glue, be sturdy enough?
    -- Jim

    Use the right tool for the job.

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