How do you sharpen your edges?

[Pat Barry]

It can be expensive if you think you need a pile of different grits as many do.

I've taken a tip from a carving mentor. You don't need 8 different grits and there is no need to go to a mirror polish with sandpaper. 280 grit sandpaper, 400 grit sandpaper and then strop. If you insist on one more grit get 800 grit sand paper as well. There is no need for the automotive sandpapers over 1000 grit nor the 5, 3, 1, .5 micron papers at all.

Sharpen quick and get back to work. Many make it some sort of ritual and waste too much time.

If you don't use sandpaper here are my stone recommendations.

For diamond 325 grit, 600 grit and strop.
For oil stones Norton India Coarse/Fine, Soft Ark, and strop.
For water 800 or 1000, 4000 and strop

I used to think I needed 10 grits and a ritual, but found out I was wrong.

Warren,
I tend to agree that its not necessary to hit every grade of sandpaper. I usually go to 800 wet or dry. I think its 220, 400, 800 that I use but I'd have to look at the paper I have to be sure. I recall hearing before that you shouldn't more than double the grit of the paper or risk extended time required with each successive grit.
What wood do you typically work with? - that matters to the edge sharpness necessary. Also, do you sand before finishing or finish right off the plane? - that matters to the edge sharpness as well .

[Warren West]

Warren,
I tend to agree that its not necessary to hit every grade of sandpaper. I usually go to 800 wet or dry. I think its 220, 400, 800 that I use but I'd have to look at the paper I have to be sure. I recall hearing before that you shouldn't more than double the grit of the paper or risk extended time required with each successive grit.
What wood do you typically work with? - that matters to the edge sharpness necessary. Also, do you sand before finishing or finish right off the plane? - that matters to the edge sharpness as well .

I don't plane generally, I carve wood. The little planing I do, I don't sand afterward. Typically no sanding after carving, clean smooth cuts are what I'm after. I carve bass mostly but have carved mahogany and oak. Bass needs sharp tools to avoid the fuzzies wheras oak doesn't need as sharp of a tool.

[ken hatch]

It can be expensive if you think you need a pile of different grits as many do.

I've taken a tip from a carving mentor. You don't need 8 different grits and there is no need to go to a mirror polish with sandpaper. 280 grit sandpaper, 400 grit sandpaper and then strop. If you insist on one more grit get 800 grit sand paper as well. There is no need for the automotive sandpapers over 1000 grit nor the 5, 3, 1, .5 micron papers at all.

Sharpen quick and get back to work. Many make it some sort of ritual and waste too much time.

If you don't use sandpaper here are my stone recommendations.

For diamond 325 grit, 600 grit and strop.
For oil stones Norton India Coarse/Fine, Soft Ark, and strop.
For water 800 or 1000, 4000 and strop

I used to think I needed 10 grits and a ritual, but found out I was wrong.

Warren,

A voice of reason, "Sharpen quick and get back to work. Many make it some sort of ritual and waste too much time."

Thanks,

ken

[Rick Malakoff]

Thank you Warren, you've taken the 200$ argument (diamond sharpeners) I've been having with myself off the table!
Rick

[Warren West]

Thank you Warren, you've taken the 200$ argument (diamond sharpeners) I've been having with myself off the table!
Rick

Does that mean you bought the stones or you didn't?

Diamond is nice and in my opinion worth it due to the lack of flattening and maintenance required, but if the diamond stones are out of the budget sandpaper works well. Sandpaper doesn't need flattening and can easily be used unflat as in wrapped around a dowel to sharpen the inside of a gouge as you would a use a slip stone.

One thing about the cost and wear out rate of sand paper. Certain types wear out faster than others. If you can find the stuff meant for metal, it lasts longer than that made for wood. Sanding belts designed to grind metal are the longest lasting. Just get the width you want and cut pieces off as needed. A ceramic or zirconium belt will not wear out quickly, whereas some of the adhesive backed high grit 3m stuff wears out so fast that it isn't worth the time it takes to stick down.

One thing about stropping - many use super fine compounds. That is all well and good if you strop after a very fine stone, but if you are coming off 600 grit diamond or fine india or 400 grit sandpaper, you want a compound that is a little coarser and more aggressive so it will remove the scratches. Some start coarser and breakdown as you strop such as flexcut or zam. Also if you have a lapidary supply anywhere close, a good material for stropping is 400 and 600 grit silicon carbide power. Rub just enough olive oil onto the strop so it holds the powder, you don't want that stuff airborne. It sinks into the leather and cuts quickly and finer than you'd think based on grit size. Save the 0.025 micron diamond for Nasa so they can polish up the Hubble telescope

If you want to see what cheap methods exist to sharpen tools go to youtube but don't look for any videos from the US. Look for videos from places in the world that lack disposable income AND lack marketers and experts telling you what you MUST HAVE if you are ever to amount to a hill of beans. Google translate works well as you need to have your search term be in the language of the country you want to see videos from. You will see lots of sandpaper and cheap hardware store stones and 99% of the time it will be used with water if there is any liquid involved. And...they produce wonderful work.

[Rick Malakoff]

Thanks again! Off the table means that it was a consideration at one point, I'll stick with what I have been using, Norton India, Ka-Bar Genuine Arkansas and a really hard and smooth stone that polishes everything mirror like that I picked up at the swap meet and have no idea what it is. I buy a lot of old and distressed planes and chisels most have teeth for the cutting edge, I'll reestablish the edges with a bench grinder and sandpaper.
Rick

[Warren Mickley]

If you want to see what cheap methods exist to sharpen tools go to youtube but don't look for any videos from the US.

I have used oil stones since 1962. They are not wearing out any time soon. I have spent about $0.0008 per tool sharpened. I think sandpaper is more expensive.

[Patrick Chase]

I have used oil stones since 1962. They are not wearing out any time soon. I have spent about $0.0008 per tool sharpened. I think sandpaper is more expensive.

Sandpaper vs stone is basically a religious debate, with not much chance of convincing anybody to convert.

For the record I agree with Warren - oilstones are a strong contender for the title of "most economical sharpening method over the long run". Ceramics are also quite good.

I personally tend towards waterstones and diamond films/pastes because I prioritize speed and also use some steels that don't hone very well on Arks, but I do so knowing that it's costing me more.

[Jim Koepke]

Sandpaper vs stone is basically a religious debate, with not much chance of convincing anybody to convert.

Probably so. maybe a different consideration could be if it is the end of the month and you need to sharpen something, would it be better to have a set of stones or wait until payday to buy some sandpaper?

jtk

[Todd Stock]

10 trips a day to the sharpening bench at a minute each = 43.5 hours of lost activity per year. At $100 per hour billable, that's $4,350 per year in lost revenue; at $10 per hour, still over $400 a year. For anyone that places any sort of monetary value on their time, and for whom sharpening thus becomes both overhead cost and opportunity lost, the acquisition and support cost difference between systems pales in comparison to the costs outside of how much to buy and how much to keep the system in use. The difference in time required to get to sharp dominates, to the point where that fancy TFWW tweaked $1,000 Baldor with CBN wheels becomes a very reasonable proposition versus slower, less expensive grinding systems. Same thing with diamond stones - sure...they do wear over time, but the cost to replace a stone every 5-10 years is more than addressed by the hours saved versus some other choices for a first step abrasive.

In summary: looking at cost of acquisition or cost of sustaining the system in terms of consumables misses other places where systems cost us time or opportunity, and for some of us, those overhead or opportunity costs should dominate in our decision making.

[Brian Holcombe]

If you were using diamond plates for sharpening and using them daily you'll wear them out pretty quickly, probably 1-2 months at the longest but more likely a few weeks. Natural stones are the least expensive over a career, but likely the most expensive upfront.

The time lost is just something that occurs in a workshop and is countered by the productivity of someone doing the job well with a sharp blade.

I've spoken to those who have worked in Japanese professional shops because they prioritize speed, and most of them require users to sharpen every 30 min or so of serious planing. So 5 minutes of sharpening for every 30 minutes of work. The counter to that is it would likely take you considerably longer to do the same work if you extend that time between sharpenings.

[Ric Flanders]

I'm new here but in my 40 plus years of woodworking, I've tried many different sharpening mediums and methods. Right now my preferred method is to use the Atoma diamond plates then use a hard, dark Arkansas stone. This gets all of my plane blades and chisels into work sharp shape in the least amount of time at the lowest long-term cost whether I'm restoring or just tuning something up.

[ken hatch]

10 trips a day to the sharpening bench at a minute each = 43.5 hours of lost activity per year. At $100 per hour billable, that's $4,350 per year in lost revenue; at $10 per hour, still over $400 a year. For anyone that places any sort of monetary value on their time, and for whom sharpening thus becomes both overhead cost and opportunity lost, the acquisition and support cost difference between systems pales in comparison to the costs outside of how much to buy and how much to keep the system in use. The difference in time required to get to sharp dominates, to the point where that fancy TFWW tweaked $1,000 Baldor with CBN wheels becomes a very reasonable proposition versus slower, less expensive grinding systems. Same thing with diamond stones - sure...they do wear over time, but the cost to replace a stone every 5-10 years is more than addressed by the hours saved versus some other choices for a first step abrasive.

In summary: looking at cost of acquisition or cost of sustaining the system in terms of consumables misses other places where systems cost us time or opportunity, and for some of us, those overhead or opportunity costs should dominate in our decision making.

Todd,

The perfect post for this thread . Like a train wreak I can't look away.

ken

[Todd Stock]

For shops at the top of their game, incremental improvements actually matter, because the human element in productivity caps out and then it's all the other stuff that trims minutes from the job. I do agree with your concern with sharp - years ago when still doing the Old Tools thing, I discovered that nearly every shop visit just confirmed the ugly truth that sharp is a lot rarer than I had though...there is usually a lot of room for improvement.

A couple months would be a couple orders of magnitude less useful life than what we see in practice. We have two C/XC - 12 years old and 2 years old. Not really seeing all that much wear...the only reason we added the second stone was to have both XC and C sides available without a flip at the sharpening bench. I suspect the finer diamond stones wear faster, but we use a two stone hybrid system for normal sharpening (Norton 8000 for the finer stone), so never go beyond C (325) in diamond. Perhaps wet use preserves them. Other than flattening Norton 4000 and 8000 stones and edge removal, we avoid trying to use them for stuff that will wear them out (e.g., flattening cast iron, etc.).

[Brian Holcombe]

It's very likely that it worn to the point where it is no longer a representation of the claimed grit level. I have some plates that are years old yet still cut and cut ok, but they're not cutting like a newly exposed grit of a similar range.

Compare a "600 grit" diamond plate to a 600 grit stone and you'll see what I mean. I have an 800 grit stone that cuts considerably faster than my 600 grit diamond plate, likely when that plate was new or nearly so it would have been a totally different story.