How do you sharpen your edges?

[Trevor Goodwin]

I have a variety of stones for different purposes; waterstones, SiC stones, Arkansas, and diamond. I've invested a fair bit into diamond and waterstones. My diamond plates are mostly DMT Diamond, but I've also tried Lansky and Eze-Lap, I've found them all pretty similar. I use the diamond plates for flattening backs and sharpening small tools like carving chisels and knives which have a tendency to gouge my water stones. I prefer water stones for chisels and plane irons, mostly because of the surface finish I can get with them, not really because I think I'll get a sharper tool. These are Naniwa "Specialty" Stones, which are only 3/8" thick and relatively cheap. I went with these mostly to sample them but I'd happily buy the thicker versions when these ones wear out, not that they are even close to doing so. I have most of the grits from 220 to 8000 and I recommend them based on their value. If you want to avoid using water on your tools then I recommend diamonds for coarse work and arkansas for fine, followed by stropping. You can use diamond stones dry but you may want to clean with soapy water afterwards.

I'm not convinced that waterstones need flattening as often as a lot of people suggest. If you are using honing guides in the same spot then yes you probably should. I think that you should be using the stone in a way that attempts to produce uniform wear. This means not rubbing your plane iron through the middle of the stone in a straight line and instead use patterns that cover the hole stone; figure-8, small circles, diagonal, etc. Obviously it's impossible to completely avoiding wearing one spot down faster, but your pattern should also negate the effects of the low spot.

[Jim Koepke]

Evidently some people have been offended by a contrary opinion. I expected to get flamed, so no worries. Facts are stubborn things, aren't they? They are always subject to interpretation, but it is hard to show how sandpaper is so expensive compared to waterstones.

Doug, I am sorry if my reply sounded as if I was offended or engaged in flaming you. That was not my intent.

If what someone is doing to sharpen their tools works that is fine. That is why sharpening threads sometimes become chaotic, there are so many right ways to get it done and everyone finds the one(s) that work best for themselves.

Some folks do not like water stones for valid reasons. They are possibly the messiest means of sharpening. The can get worn quicker than other media and need flattening, just not every 15 minutes in my experience.

My stones cost me less than the stones in the list in your post. Still for many folks the pricing of sandpaper sheets may work better for them than the pricing of stones or diamond plates.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

I firmly believe that every sharpening system has it's advantages and disadvantages. You choose the one which fits your life best, like Derrek says, convenience being the ultimate judge between good and wrong (for your situation).

I started with a very cheap oilstone and quickly dismissed it because it didn't really work at all. Then sandpaper, also only very temporarily because of the hassle with glueing the papers and removing them again when I really didn't want to. So I invested in a small waterstone setup. Used that for many years. In the end it was mostly the mess of flattening them, the cold fingers in the winter and the softness of my stones (which made sharpening gouges a problem), that ended my love afair with waterstones.

Now I have oilstones. A fine India which really is rather coarse, a Washita and a translucent Arkansas. And a leather strop of course. Maybe not the quickest stones but they perform very well on my traditional tools. For heavy metal removal I resort to a grinder and/or a belt sanding setup. Flattening backs (I have done quite a bit because my liking of antique tools) is mostly done with coarse sandpaper on glass. I hate that job.

[Pat Barry]

I'm most interested in the sandpaper method for maintaining and sharpening. I already have a 6 inch grinder to put a hollow on the bevel. For those who use sandpaper, what grit papers do you use?

[Todd Stock]

Generally, a two stone system - a large DuoSharp DMT C/XC to remove the old edge and an 8000 Norton to polish. Regrind the bevel on an 8" crowned CBN/low speed no-name grinder or the 18 year old Tormek (which gets used for stropping carving tools more than anything else...slow, slow grinder with stock wheel).

Cost of entry for Scary-Sharp is inexpensive, so it's one of the things we teach students....everything readily available even in a small town (plate glass, 3M 77, and a half dozen sheets of 3M Imperial or similar). Long term can get expensive using films or other media, but compared to the average millenial's Starbucks or energy drink habit, it's spare change. Most students end up with same two stone system we use for most flat work after a year or so, but some have stuck with Scary Sharp...whatever works. Usually teach side-clamp honing guides because the learning curve for beginning luthiers is ridiculously steep already.

[Walter Plummer]

Wet-Dry Silicone carbide works great for me. I got an assortment of grits on the auction site up to 2500 grit. Still only used maybe half of the paper. As long as you don't cut it with what you are sharpening it lasts a long time.

[steven c newman]

Same here....except I just walk into the Automotive section where they sell paint and other supplies for working on vehicles' painted surfaces. I can get up 3000 grit. NO SHIPPING, just drive the 1-2 miles back home. Strop is an old leather work belt. To refresh an edge while I am working with the chisels....pants leg of my jeans does even better than the belt/strop......


( Send Lawyers, Guns and Money....another sharpening thread has hit the fan....)

[ken hatch]

Sharpening isn't about sharpening but instead it is about having a tool that is sharp enough for the job at hand and when it isn't; making it sharp enough quickly and with minimum hassle. That is unless you are just a sharpening nerd and "my iron is sharper, shinier, or whatever than yours". To work efficiently you need a system that is just a step or two from your work bench and is ready to go when needed. Diamond stones can be great and work with little prep but can leave a scratch pattern that is hard to smooth, Arkansas Stones are much the same but do not have a scratch pattern problem and are slower working than diamonds, Water stones need more prep, can be faster working but are incredibly messy, PSA sandpaper can produce a sharp edge but is a PITA and slow to set up and use.

Sharpening is kinda like health care in there are three major factors speed, cost, and hassle. Pick any two that meets your needs...You can't have all three.

ken

[Todd Stock]

400/800/1200/1500/2000/2500...all 3M Imperial for me, but there are some nice papers from Japan as well as films available. 320 is nice to have for edge removal.

Two stone system is faster, but obviously higher cost of entry. About 60 seconds for a block plane blade or chisel if just a redone needed. Time is treated differently for hobbyists than for those on the clock, so Scary Sharp is a good low-cost way to get a decent edge with minimal initial investment.

[Pat Barry]

400/800/1200/1500/2000/2500...all 3M Imperial for me, but there are some nice papers from Japan as well as films available. 320 is nice to have for edge removal.

Two stone system is faster, but obviously higher cost of entry. About 60 seconds for a block plane blade or chisel if just a redone needed. Time is treated differently for hobbyists than for those on the clock, so Scary Sharp is a good low-cost way to get a decent edge with minimal initial investment.

Todd, do you use all those grits regularly or just some of them? I can see 400, 800, 1600 and a quick stripping on leather. Not sure what the rules are for skipping grits.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Now I use a soft white / hard black ark. I would like to add a coarser stone for initial bevel shaping or getting a better tool rest for my grinder. To which I have to ask, which would be better? It seems like if I got a good tool rest like the Veritas, I could skip the coarser stone?

If you are asking whether you should grind primary bevels by hand or with a machine, I'd say go with the machine especially if you already have one. I can't speak to tool rests, but I don't see why it needs to be anything complicated- as long as it holds the tool at a consistent angle. You can control the skew by eye. But a nice tool rest doesn't hurt, and if there's something wrong with yours then by all means upgrade.

If you were to grind by hand, then a coarse/medium Crystolon, or 80 grit PSA paper, is the way to go for bevel shaping. I prefer the PSA paper generally - I use it for heavy work on Japanese tools since I would rather not risk power grinding on them. But I don't have to use it often. If hand grinding were part of my regular routine then I'd use the Crystolon stone to avoid hassles with PSA paper (it's a pain to remove old sheets). It's definitely the most aggressive stone I've ever used, but it doesn't stay flat any better than a waterstone, and it's not trivial to flatten because it's liable to destroy a diamond hone. But it is good for bevel work where absolute flatness isn't as critical.

I'd rather just use a grinder when I can

I also use soft and translucent arkansas stones. If you have a freshly ground bevel, the soft ark will probably work well enough to raise a wire edge. But if there's more steel to remove then I like to begin with something a bit more aggressive. A fine india stone is good for this- when broken in and maintained with a diamond hone it leaves a scratch pattern similar to a 1000 grit waterstone, with decent cutting speed. The soft ark can refine the scratch pattern quickly.

Of course there can be a lot of variability in soft arks. Mine seems to be fairly fine cutting, yours may be more aggressive.

[Doug Hepler]

Jim,

You certainly did not sound offended. Your comments were helpful and to the point. I learned something from your post, which is often the case with your posts. Maybe there was something about my honing technique that dished my stones so quickly. Maybe it was the stones themselves.

I do not like to respond to flamers by name because it often just encourages them. You definitely were NOT included.

Each of us finds his own way in craftsmanship. Woodworking forums were extremely useful to me when I was starting out, but I frequently was confused by "experts" who were filled with passionate intensity but had no basis for their opinions. I often have newcomers in mind when I read and respond. What will they take away from our discussions? I like SMC because most of the discussions are reasonable exchanges of opinion. I'd like to encourage that.

All the best

Doug

[steven c newman]

A question for you, if you don't mind..

Do you wear jeans in the shop? Or, an apron of some sort? Reason?

While I am sitting on my shop stool, chopping away at either mortises, or dovetails.....a few quick swipes on both the bevel and the back of that chisel, and I am back in "business" chopping away at that Maple part I am working on. A cotton duck apron is what I have in the shop, or...just a pair of old blue jeans. A few quick passes on the pants leg, or the apron covering the leg, is all it takes to MAINTAIN that sharp edge.

Maybe try it a few times? ( have been known to refresh a plane's iron that way, too. )

[michael langman]

Your sharpening method is going to be determined by your preferences in types of steels. You can take a 20 dollar fine coarse india bench stone and a the cheap diamond pates from harbor freight to dress the bench stone, and produce an edge to fulfill most wood working needs. If your tools are o1 or lesser steels.
As was previously posted, dressing your india stones regularly will help them to cut much faster. The india, soft, hard white and translucent white with a wooden strop is all I use for my sharpening needs.
I would look into ceramic stones if I used the harder steels.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

You certainly did not sound offended. Your comments were helpful and to the point. I learned something from your post, which is often the case with your posts. Maybe there was something about my honing technique that dished my stones so quickly. Maybe it was the stones themselves.

[edit]

All the best

Doug

Thank you for your reply Doug.

In ny first experiences with water stones there was a tendency to use only the middle of the stone. This caused dishing and the result was unintentional cambering of blades. Over time my use of waterstones tended toward using the whole surface as much as possible. There is still some unevenness created over time. Most of the time my blades can be brought to a reasonable and useable edge without flattening the stones. My stones usually only get flattened when it becomes difficult to get a reasonably straight edge, about once or twice a year.

The work produced by the edge is my method of judging the result:

Fine Shaving 0.0002x?.jpg

This was done with a type 6 #4 Stanley/Bailey plane.

A picture of the back of the blade was also posted:

Blade Back 2 inch.jpg

My recollection is the thread at the time was about back beveling or the ruler trick (of course another sharpening thread). My tendency is to not use a back bevel, at least not intentionally. Apparently the slight curvature of the lamp reflected on the edge of the blade is an indication of the surface not being a perfect plane.

Maybe it is due to my stones not being perfectly flat. But in my shop, being able to do work with the finished blade that is acceptable to me (and especially my wife) is what matters.

In the end it isn't important what media or method people use to get to an edge. What matters is if the edge is performing to produce the results the person wants.

jtk