How do you sharpen your edges?

[Jim Koepke]

I'm new here but in my 40 plus years of woodworking, I've tried many different sharpening mediums and methods. Right now my preferred method is to use the Atoma diamond plates then use a hard, dark Arkansas stone. This gets all of my plane blades and chisels into work sharp shape in the least amount of time at the lowest long-term cost whether I'm restoring or just tuning something up.

Howdy Ric and welcome to the Creek. One has to be brave to jump into a sharpening thread on their first post.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

The perfect post for this thread . Like a train wreak I can't look away.

Casey Jones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8qTKyb0EcY

Wabash Canonball:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yhvv234oaA

They are all a means to and end. What I love, you might hate. I spent money when I had to sharpen some very out of shape chisels. I tell some of my friends that if they have something seriously out of shape, swing by, we can put it in shape, and then it is easy to keep it in shape for a while with almost any medium (depending on how hard you work your tools of course).

[Warren West]

If you were using diamond plates for sharpening and using them daily you'll wear them out pretty quickly, probably 1-2 months at the longest but more likely a few weeks.

I can't imagine any diamond plates wearing out that fast unless they were the cheapest bottom of the barrel auction site specials with white glue used to attach the diamonds. The other possibility how hard does one bear down. You can't stand on a diamond plate as you can oilstones. After you have enough pressure on the diamonds, more doesn't cut faster it just wears the plates prematurely.

Doesn't Paul Sellers and a few others that run classes talk about 5 to 10 years for diamond stones. I don't use them as much as they do, but my 5 year old plates are just like they were when they broke in originally.

[Jim Koepke]

Casey Jones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8qTKyb0EcY

[edit]

This is the version on my shop tunes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wry9XwMUJwI

by David Grisman and Jerry Garcia

jtk

[Warren West]

Thanks again! Off the table means that it was a consideration at one point, I'll stick with what I have been using, Norton India, Ka-Bar Genuine Arkansas and a really hard and smooth stone that polishes everything mirror like that I picked up at the swap meet and have no idea what it is. I buy a lot of old and distressed planes and chisels most have teeth for the cutting edge, I'll reestablish the edges with a bench grinder and sandpaper.
Rick

That's a good system right there. I wouldn't change it.

[Brian Holcombe]

I can't imagine any diamond plates wearing out that fast unless they were the cheapest bottom of the barrel auction site specials with white glue used to attach the diamonds. The other possibility how hard does one bear down. You can't stand on a diamond plate as you can oilstones. After you have enough pressure on the diamonds, more doesn't cut faster it just wears the plates prematurely.

Doesn't Paul Sellers and a few others that run classes talk about 5 to 10 years for diamond stones. I don't use them as much as they do, but my 5 year old plates are just like they were when they broke in originally.

I have one worn out Atoma 120 and one DMT dia-flat. I dont use them with any more pressure than I would any of my other stones, IE they did not die from losing stones just from wearing down. Both still cut, but that isn't saying much.

You can go ahead and use those plates for 5-10 years and even then they likely will not be dead, but they won't cut like fresh grit of the same rating.

I like to do this work quickly, and refreshing the grit is better and faster for me than using diamond plates.

Atoma and DMT are great plates, neither were recommended by the sellers to be used for sharpening and it proves accurate quite rapidly.

[Todd Stock]

i think this is a 'mileage may vary' thing...the C/XC (325/220) removes the edge quickly - fast enough to get a tool back in service in a minute or so - and does a good job leveling 4000 (used for initial conditioning only) and 8000 grit waterstones, so it gives me a two stone system (I don't strop most chisels or plane blades) that travels well and gives me just the 8000 to flatten. It may be that the grits might be closer to 400/275, but they handle the blades I use quickly, and once broken in, seem to cut the same way for a decade or so.

I think the point to consider is that cost for any of these systems is secondary to how much time a skilled person takes to produce a serviceable edge. Like Derek, I hate sharpening - after 45 years or so, it just gets old, so faster matters for both boredom and bottom line impact.

[Warren West]

I have one worn out Atoma 120 and one DMT dia-flat.

Wow! Did you flatten water stones as well or just use them for sharpening?

I don't flatten anything with mine as I can imagine abrasive slurry as one might get flattening waterstones interfering with the nickel plating and help to dislodge diamonds.

For wholesale stock removal Silicon Carbide and Sandpaper are hard to beat. Zirconium sandpaper, especially.

[Patrick Chase]

I don't flatten anything with mine as I can imagine abrasive slurry as one might get flattening waterstones interfering with the nickel plating and help to dislodge diamonds.

That's sort of backwards. Diamond plates last for a long long time for flattening waterstones, provided you don't use too much pressure and don't use them on overly coarse/aggressive stones. For example the Shapton diamond plate lasts quite nicely for flattening medium/fine grit stones (500# and up) but can't handle steel at all. I've used an Atoma 140# to flatten 220# and up stones for years, and it still gets the job done.

In contrast, plates that I've used on irons have become noticeably slower with use, as Brian describes.

[Patrick Chase]

You can go ahead and use those plates for 5-10 years and even then they likely will not be dead, but they won't cut like fresh grit of the same rating.

I like to do this work quickly, and refreshing the grit is better and faster for me than using diamond plates.

You should try diamond lapping films or pastes.

The problem with the plates is that they have a single layer of abrasives, and the points of those diamond particles do wear down with use, particularly on steel.

You can get about 10 similarly-sized pieces of 3M diamond lapping film or ~12 g of high quality diamond lapping compound for the cost of a single diamond plate. Like you I prioritize speed, and the films/compounds enable you to always work with a relatively fresh surface. The plate is initially competitive, but there's no comparison by the time you've subjected it to the same amount of use that it takes to wear out a couple sheets of lapping film.

Stones are cheaper than either, of course. Films are basically "scary sharp on steroids" (faster and longer-lasting than sandpaper, but also more expensive). Pastes are significantly cheaper than films in my experience, but still pricier than stones in the long run.

I only use plates for stone-flattening at this point.

[steven c newman]

This ain't Rocket Science..

I use a few Oil stones, some wet-or-dry paper, and a strop... and only the last two to refresh....I buy the mixed sandpaper package maybe once every 3-4 months...

[Warren Mickley]

10 trips a day to the sharpening bench at a minute each = 43.5 hours of lost activity per year. At $100 per hour billable, that's $4,350 per year in lost revenue; at $10 per hour, still over $400 a year. For anyone that places any sort of monetary value on their time, and for whom sharpening thus becomes both overhead cost and opportunity lost, the acquisition and support cost difference between systems pales in comparison to the costs outside of how much to buy and how much to keep the system in use. The difference in time required to get to sharp dominates, to the point where that fancy TFWW tweaked $1,000 Baldor with CBN wheels becomes a very reasonable proposition versus slower, less expensive grinding systems. Same thing with diamond stones - sure...they do wear over time, but the cost to replace a stone every 5-10 years is more than addressed by the hours saved versus some other choices for a first step abrasive.

In summary: looking at cost of acquisition or cost of sustaining the system in terms of consumables misses other places where systems cost us time or opportunity, and for some of us, those overhead or opportunity costs should dominate in our decision making.

I spent the day today thinking about how nice if I could save $3450 a year by buying a $1000 grinder. I have used a grinder a few times on chisels, but not since 1980. As a consequence it now takes me 70 seconds to sharpen a chisel. If I could get that down to 10 seconds I could save a minute on each one. I think one of the problems is that I would not want a grinder near my bench, so a lot of that 10 seconds would be taken up walking to and from the grinder.

It takes me about 40 seconds to sharpen a carving gouge, working on three stones and a strop. I am having trouble thinking how I might save a minute on each one. Maybe I can just sharpen twice as often and save 30 seconds each time. Or maybe Patrick can help me with the concept of negative time. Come to think of it, I remember a guy making sash telling me he could set up a machine "in no time at all".

[Frederick Skelly]

I spent the day today thinking about how nice if I could save $3450 a year by buying a $1000 grinder. I have used a grinder a few times on chisels, but not since 1980. As a consequence it now takes me 70 seconds to sharpen a chisel. If I could get that down to 10 seconds I could save a minute on each one. I think one of the problems is that I would not want a grinder near my bench, so a lot of that 10 seconds would be taken up walking to and from the grinder.

It takes me about 40 seconds to sharpen a carving gouge, working on three stones and a strop. I am having trouble thinking how I might save a minute on each one. Maybe I can just sharpen twice as often and save 30 seconds each time. Or maybe Patrick can help me with the concept of negative time. Come to think of it, I remember a guy making sash telling me he could set up a machine "in no time at all".

Thanks Warren. I always find your perspectives interesting and appreciate you sharing them.
Do I recall correctly that you make your living using nothing but hand tools? I seem to remember Dave Weaver telling me so.

Fred

[Todd Stock]

I recall being a hobby woodworker. It was nice. No schedule, not concerns about overhead. Simpler days.

But seriously...I value Warren's perspectives as well...every neighborhood needs that old codger that cuts his lawn every third day with a reel mower and can reliably be counted upon to yell at the neighborhood kids to get the heck off his lawn

[Warren Mickley]

Thanks Warren. I always find your perspectives interesting and appreciate you sharing them.
Do I recall correctly that you make your living using nothing but hand tools? I seem to remember Dave Weaver telling me so.

Fred

Yes, when you do things by hand habitually they go a lot faster, and sharpening is a case in point. There was a guy on another thread who could not imagine ripping 48 inches. That is about as much work as walking out to the mailbox and back and then filing the letter upstairs. Would you drive to the mailbox and install an elevator to save time? Maybe if you were crippled.